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Reports of our death have been greatly exaggerated...

Swad

By Swad

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As most of you know, two days ago we were contacted by an Apple representative concerning links, posted by our members, to the newest patches by Maxxuss on his site. Since the beginning, we have made it known that we would be very willing to work with Apple regarding any concerns they had with their intellectual property and this site (I actually wrote Steve about it a few months ago… but that's another story...). After speaking with the lawyer representing Apple, we've removed the handful of links to Maxxuss' website from the Forum.

 

Apple is certainly well within their rights to protect their OS and we have always supported them in this effort. Our first-class moderating staff has helped ensure that direct links to any patches are not allowed. We have in the past linked to the homepage of Maxxuss - but not to the offending 10.4.4 patches - in the interest of news, but we've removed those links just in case.

 

News of Apple's DMCA concerns with the links on our site have traveled far and wide over the past 24 hours. Most major tech news site have covered it in one way or another, some accurately, some not. I'd like to be clear regarding the history of this site. Back in the summer, after Steve announced the Intel transition and the Net was filled with rumors of faked leaks, it became apparent to a few of us that the transition was one that many people would want to discuss. We first started the wiki, then the forum, then the full-fleged news portion of the site. Since that time, we've been recognized as the leader in discussion of all things "OS X on x86" related.

 

This site was not founded to be a "watercooler for hackers" as CNet posited. Instead, it was simply meant to be welcoming Mac community for switchers and experts alike. We think that we've accomplished that goal - a large portion of our forum membership is comprised of new iMac users who have commented on the accepting ethos of our forum. We welcome everyone. Of course the hackers came (as we knew they would) but as long as they accepted the rules, they were welcomed as well. It's also important to note that situations like this, in which members post questionable material and the site is served with legal notices, are not uncommon; a similar situation occured in the early days with Neowin and Microsoft.

 

So that's the story. Apple doesn't "have it in" for our site; they were simply concerned with a few links posted by our members. Those links have been removed and we're back.

 

Thanks for your patience with this matter, and to those who are new... welcome to the most talked-about forum on Earth right now. :)

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Metrogirl

Metrogirl 7

Posted

Glad to see your back online.

 

BTW, I must say that I think that Apple is being extremely tolerant here.

 

I thought they had drawn the line at 10.4.4 and that some people here where going to face litigation.

 

You know, that thought had occurred to some of us as well ... but, and I'm not speculating on Apple policy here, I think the fact that we are a community of responsible people promoting healthy discussion, and the fact that we have always had a policy of keeping the site 'clean' of offending material, is what has kept us up and running. We haven't tolerated abuse of the rules, although we have relaxed them occasionally. We want that healthy discussion to continue, together with the interest in, and promotion of, all things OSX and Apple.

 

You'll have read my comments when I've deleted links or warned people before - I always try to sympathise with their aims but, and I'll quote this again, "We want to be here for you today, tomorrow and the future. If we allow people to break the rules, we might not be allowed to be around in the future." I think for many people who are tempted to cross the line this has been a warning. The entire staff team will be very vigilant to make sure this doesn't happen again.

 

-Sarah

DJP

DJP 0

Posted

Glad to have you guys back. :)

kp189

kp189 0

Posted

this is my first post (i've been reading quietly in the background for weeks, i was hoping to contribute first -but maybe later).. anyway, greets to everyone and... i must re-iterate the obvious, GLAD YOUR BACK!

 

btw, thx to all concerned for their efforts on 'porting this over' to x86 :)

snowmen

snowmen 0

Posted

I click on Wiki but it send me to the forum...

Is Wiki closed?

cyrana

cyrana 2

Posted

It really shouldn't be an issue for people here anyway (as a few above have posted).

 

All the stupid kexts and patches people seem to post here are always findable if you look. We just get an amazing # of people who are too lazy to really find something on their own.

 

Glad we made it back ok, hope the rest of you help us out and obey the rules. :)

 

Edit: Wiki closed while being cleaned, it will return too.

Mr. Bond

Mr. Bond 4

Posted

The wiki is just getting a thorough check for any infringements just as the forum has been, the forum was the priority but the wiki will be back again very soon. As soon as we are satisfied with it's content we'll reopen it.

 

Thanks to everyone for their patience while this work is carried out so we can continue to be the number one place for everything to do with Mac OS on intel. Long Live OSx86 Project.

 

See above. :)

Metrogirl

Metrogirl 7

Posted

I click on Wiki but it send me to the forum...

Is Wiki closed?

 

Yes, see Ouch!'s earlier post in this thread. We're currently working through it to make absolutely sure there are no violations of the DMCA lurking to bite us in the proverbial... :)

 

Edit - seems that everyone was keen to reply at once! It will be back ASAP.

i1sam

i1sam 0

Posted

it felt like an asteriod dropped and make my machine "jurasic" when the page got freezed, NICE i can still read some progress... GLAD YOU'RE BACK

Yossarian

Yossarian 0

Posted

Does anybody know the fate of the win2osx.net forum?

Metrogirl

Metrogirl 7

Posted

Does anybody know the fate of the win2osx.net forum?

 

Why would you want to go there when you've got us? :)

 

Seriously though, I understand that their ISP took them down after getting served with a DMCA violation notice - there was a 'site suspended for breaking policy' notice posted for a few hours then they disappeared. I understand they're moving to a new host and may have already done so but are overwhelmed with traffic. I can't find them on DNS right now though.

Mr. Bond

Mr. Bond 4

Posted

Like we said in the linked thread, win2osx maintains that they were not served with a DMCA violation, but simply had too much server traffic to handle.

 

@Metrogirl...I remeber their site displaying that message before when they exceed their bandwith limit, so it might just be a coincedence. Hard to believe though, with all the links and patches posted throughout the site...way more than ours!

xtraa

xtraa 44

Posted

Glad to see you online again :angry:

 

meanwhile I had the idea to make a donation site for Apple, that the people who are not able to buy OSX 10.4.4. can donate, (because you simply can't buy it) :D

 

What do you think? Would Apple accept donations? :)

Gooly

Gooly 0

Posted

Happy to see the forum back again.

Metrogirl

Metrogirl 7

Posted

What do you think? Would Apple accept donations? :angry:

 

Probably not, but I would angel_not.gif - just kidding!

roomchieftain

roomchieftain 0

Posted

The thing that I think most people forget about is that Apple is trying VERY hard to duck the possible lawsuit that Mr. Dell had drawn up the day after Steve announced the switch.. Think about it Apple does not want to waste resources on a toe to toe fight over OS placement with Gates just to make Mr. Dell one happy man.

inmotion

inmotion 0

Posted

lol... love the way you played with the Rise Against song... ;)

 

edit: (refer to Rumors of My Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated from the album Siren Song Of The Counter Culture)

xPoWx Th3Myth

xPoWx Th3Myth 0

Posted

I'm all late, but yeah, I'm happy the site is back up. Felt lost without it for awhile

-.-

-.- 0

Posted

:)

 

Glad you guys are back, I was going to send like a get well soon card or something but figured offline probably meant it would just get lost out there somewhere.

 

David-.-

jdxxx

jdxxx 0

Posted

edit: (refer to Rumors of My Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated from the album Siren Song Of The Counter Culture)

 

Mark Twain said it about 125 years earlier.... But cultural literacy is a passing thing.

eykO

eykO 0

Posted

In view of the possible excessive censorship (imho - not posting maxxuss site's links, wiki's thorough "cleaning", "who" says "what" information is allowed or not, etc), i guess we should recall one of the recent quotes in defense of our freedom that we've all probably read - a complain by some at the chinese communist party:

 

"History demonstrates that only a totalitarian system needs news censorship, out of the delusion that it can keep the public locked in ignorance."

 

Yes, osx86project.org should and is keeping within the margins allowed by the law, but the question is where is the limit, and when will we start speaking out to protect our Political Freedom.

 

So, I have a question. Regarding what the authorities/lawyers/whoevers are doing to the site, I'd like to know where does our freedom of speech, congregation, etc. end:

  • First Amendment – Freedom of speech, press, religion, peaceable assembly, and to petition the government.
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
  • Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
  • Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.
    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Anyway, ianal so if they want to cripple the wiki and say they have the power (not the right in my opinion) to do so, fine and whatever, but I'm really upset that we don't even complain seriously about some apparent limiting of our freedoms. Like the comic says:

 

p160220061is.jpg

 

"They give us freedom of expression... ...until we speak."

learning_bird

learning_bird 0

Posted

Glad to see you back!

 

Curiously, on the day before all this happened I ordered some components to build my first "OS X on commodity Intel parts" compliant computer ( which meant a 915 chpset, GMA 900 and Celeron D 331 processor ) and because I'm truly confident on this community/project capacities I didn't cancelled my order. So let's keep with this work!

 

Just to have things clear, in the future if Jas, Wesley or anyone else wants to publish files and patches, what can they do since it's not allowed to publish them on the site or even a link to an external download site? At least is it possible to reference the name of their own site where the files are hosted or the most that can be said is the name of the file and we have to google it or search it on t0rr3nt sites?

 

If you ever consider the need to host your site outside the US ( like in Maxxuss land ) and require some reasonable donations, I'm for it.

 

Cheers.

Guest goodtime

Guest goodtime

Posted

Think tank...

 

Steve and Apple:

 

Please let this forum survive and allow us to start think tank for OS X and x86. You could even make it a private forum that would not be seen by the public.

 

Also, let the OSx86project members purchase a Geek OS X Box for $250.00. In return, Send us the Tiger 10.4.5 Intel CD without TPM or EFI drives but do include a Apple BIOS Driver and serial number linked to that person's account, add a few test video drivers that you already have when you were testing Intel builds OS X on Dell or Generic PC boxes (before Intel Mac's existed.)

 

Also, don't give us any support except for free 10.4.x software updates for the Geek OS X Box subscribers.

 

Sincerely,

goodtime

 

 

 

 

:)

Guest goodtime

Guest goodtime

Posted

Think tank... Think different. Sound familiar? Don't be like Big Blue or MicroSoft.

 

Please see the light. You have an reinvented an untapped market:

 

Tinkerers, Unix / Linux Switchers, Good Hackers, and Build your own Intel Mac Hobbyists. "Cha Ching!"

 

We mean you no harm. Your current market share will grow. Your current user base will not try to build their own Macs. In return, we agree not to sell our homemade Intel mac-like hot rods to the public.

 

Sincerely,

 

goodtime

 

p.s.

 

This message was written on an Intel Based Mac OS X86 PC, the hardware was not not made by the fruit company, the software was created by Apple.

 

java script:emoticon(':)',%20'smid_1')

junkjunk876

junkjunk876 0

Posted

Moderators,

 

I understand the DMCA issues that you're working through, but you really need to consult a lawyer. Taking down the forum for 48 hours was excessive, and keeping the wiki down even longer only proves the point.

 

DMCA takedown notices are required to specifically identify the allegedly infringing content. Apple's letter should contain a roadmap to any content that they feel must be removed. If that content is not identified, then you have immunity from liability so long as you comply with the statute and remove the identified materials.

 

Simply, it is not your job to comb through the site to find anything that matches vague criteria that Apple's lawyers may issued. Furthermore, if it is not copyrighted code, patches to an effective technological measure, or links to either, it is entirely outside the bounds of the DMCA. Apple has rights in this situation, but so does this site.

 

You need to review Title 17 U.S.C. sec. 512 herecarefully, especially subsection ©, regardless of whether you consult a lawyer or not. The rumors of the death of the site sprang up because of this site's overreaction to what should have been a routine bit of message moderation.


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