MacBooks, Flame On!

I think I'll wait for rev. B.

I think that aluminum alloy for a laptop is a very bad idea. It might have been okay for the not-so-power-hungry powerbook G4, but it's too much for the Intel Core Duo + ATI X1600 + 7200RPM Hard drive. It just draws too much heat. try to touch a stainless-still-only spoon which was in a hot cup of tea. you won't be able touch it, because METALS DRAW TOO MUCH HEAT. that's why most companies use carbon fiber, plastic, magnesium alloy etc in their laptops. It's just better at dealing with heat. Some claim the aluminum is good because it draws the heat away from the insides into the outside air. This might be great if there's not too much heat inside, but at some point, it's just too much.

I think Wikipedia said it best:

"Aluminium is a good heat conductor which is why it is used to make saucepans."

See my post on the issue at macrumors.com:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=187099

Oded S.

Wouldn't it be a good argument that the whole MBP is a heat sink? Shouldn't the aluminum alloy dissipate heat from the the source? Maybe the the ventilation needs some work? I have a suspicion that the charger was at fault and not the MBP itself. None the less, Apple shouldn't have asked the source to remove the picture. They should tackle the problem head on if this is truly a design flaw.

I'm surpised that they made the HUGE power adapter and then the unit still gets hot.

Seriously... the powerbook is hot enough I am really considering building a plastic layer to fit to the form of the bottom of my notebook just so I can use it on my lap without scortching my skin...

The PSU shouldn't be a factor of the overheating. I was implying that the burned MagSafe connector has some issue with the power supply. Again, this is just an assumption or opinion which don't count for anything . It would be interesting if someone could take heat probe and see if which yields the highest temperature, the GPU, CPU, or the HDD. I know most Mac owners don't care about the technical issues, but it may yield some answers.

Here's a wonderful paper on heat dissipation in electronic enclosures.

because METALS DRAW TOO MUCH HEAT.

If the laptop enclosure was drawing ANY heat, that would mean it was bearing an electrical current. Let's hope that's not the case. It wouldn't necessarily shock you, unless your skin became either a path of lesser resistance OR you connected yourself to a greater potential, e.g., you put one hand in water and held on with the other.

What I think obedia meant was that it simply dissipates too much heat. The problem is that it either dissipates the heat or components start melting!

Two ways to overcome this obstacle come to mind:

1. Dissipate. Dissipate heat through the back of the LCD, through an external heatsink; use space age materials; just do more of the same.

2. Reduce amperage (current) requirements. Take a look at the power req's for this 4200 RPM, 12GB laptop drive. Wattage = Volts X Amps. 5 volts times 1/2 amp equals 2.5 watts.

Today's laptops usually have 5400 or 7200 RPM hard drives. (So they draw much more current.)

That's not even including the processor or memory sticks. The faster anything runs, the more current it draws. Anyone ever messed with Rambus DRAM? Hot stuff!

Now we have dual core processors? Yes, they follow the new ultra-low-voltage specs, but still! A single core runs hot enough as it is!

Read this thread. Here's a good snippet:

Rosetta, which is Apple's PowerPC-to-x86 code translator, raises the load on an Intel-based Mac. During a flight to San Francisco from Dallas, which is often my battery life test, I discovered that leaving Office running while I worked in other foreground apps drained MacBook Pro's battery rapidly. After I exited Office, the battery drained at a rate comparable to a PC's. I'm not picking on Office. I've recompiled the daemons I use as Universal Binaries, so Office, Aperture and Toast are the only PowerPC-only executables that followed me to the MacBook Pro.

 

Core Duo's got a multi-layered power management scheme that is extremely effective if the OS uses it right, and incidentally, I haven't met an OS yet that does. Perhaps Rosetta throws a spanner in the power saving works by never letting the OS or CPU see those periods of zero utilization when it's okay to snooze for a few microseconds while awaiting the next interrupt. In any case, on a MacBook Pro, Scott's right: Early results show that Rosetta is not your battery's friend.

What can YOU do to cool down your MBP? Avoid running PowerPC applications. Check out any processes that you run that are PowerPC and locate the Universal Binary version. If you're running WoW, it may be that it's not completely UB if it's getting really hot.

From within that first article mentioned at the beginning:

"Research has shown for every 18°F (10°C) rise above

normal room temperature (72°- 75°F), the life expectancy

of your electronics is cut in half."

Granted, this paper isn't necessarily over laptop heat dissipation, but it's a good place to start making some assumptions. For instance, if you're in a room that's 74 degrees, and your laptop is 110 degrees, it's now at one fourth of its life expentancy. If it's getting hot enough to burn your legs, then Steve Jobs has a lot more to worry about than an upsurge in maintenance contract realizations. Suffice it to say, McDonalds learned that lesson not long ago.

Adam

Good explanation Adam. I'm wondering if the Toshiba Core Duo has the same problem. Has Apple relied too much on aesthetics value that it payed less attention to how electricity works? Hard to believe, and I hope that's not the case (no pun intended).

Needless to say, the only reason we aren't using terabytes of cpu cycles is because of heat alone. I thought the Japanese was working on this a few years ago, along with nuclear fusion batteries?

Edit: About Rosetta. Higher CPU usage is always the result, along with mouse scrolling and extended amount of right clicking. Install a free utility called MenuMeters and you will see that holding down the right button will use 20-40 percent of you CPU. Running an PPC flavored application such as Adobe and MS product will mantain your CPU value at 5-10 percent at idle.

... the only reason we aren't using terabytes of cpu cycles is because of heat alone.

Apollo Diamond has developed a process that produces perfect manmade diamonds in any desired shape! Currently, CPUs use silicon wafers, which are subject to the destablizing effects of heat. Imagine using diamond wafers!

Hold on there shirley - i think apple kit is expensive enough!

Like every new computer/tech gad they got probs wit version one. not one product that is completely new wont have probelms. wait till version 2 comes out.

Apollo Diamond has developed a process that produces perfect man made diamonds in any desired shape! Currently, CPUs use silicon wafers, which are subject to the destabilizing effects of heat. Imagine using diamond wafers!

 

On lighter note, Valentines Day will get cheaper and cheaper! Imagine giving 4 sets of diamond rings to 3 girlfriends plus your mother of course .

If it's that easy won't synthetic diamond just be regarded the new cubic zirconia - people will only want natural diamonds!

Wow, that power connector looked terrible. This is why people shouldn't try to be on the cutting, or burning edge of technology (ha! ha! burning! not funny). I thought I was going to buy a MBP, but then looked at it's specs and software support and instead decided to buy a tried and true PowerBook. It's sometimes better to simply pretend Apple kept their promise of producing their first mactels in the summer. Then again, if everyone was like me, we wouldn't have Windows booting on Macs either. Just my

Melting and overheating aside, the MagSafe connectors aren't built very well. This happened to mine within a month of normal use. Yesterday it stopped working entirely, leaving me with a 5 pound brick of a computer.

I'm surprised you or the machine didn't ground. That looks like the aluminum shielding is exposed. RMA the thing and have Apple overnight the shipping. Where are those things built anyway? The craftsmanship reminds me of... Well I don't want to get into that.

PS. That is an awsome micro-shot. I can only wish I have such a camera.

After closer inspection, I found what appears to be a burn mark on the inside of the cable. I wonder if I have one of those fun melting MagSafes and stopped using it just in time...

domino: Thanks. I'm using a Canon Digital Rebel XT with a 50mm macro lens, in case you were curious.

It's more envy than wondering what kind of camera you have Zenex. I already know I can't afford one. USD$700 isn't too bad, but I need the cash for a new Core Duo Tower.

I still can't understand it with Apple's hardware looking so beat up after only one month of normal use. I have tons of mouse with cord, pda phones with usb and power cord, patch cords, and laptop accessories with cord that I have been using for years hasn't been damaged. I'm speechless.

I still can't understand it with Apple's hardware looking so beat up after only one month of normal use. I have tons of mouse with cord, pda phones with usb and power cord, patch cords, and laptop accessories with cord that I have been using for years hasn't been damaged. I'm speechless.

Yeah, I was really surprised. It started getting messed up a few weeks ago, and it slowly got worse and worse until yesterday, when it simply stopped working. The same thing actually happened with my iBook, but that was after a year, not a month. No other product has ever failed like that on me.

The good news is, the MacBook itself has been solid as a rock (except for those pesky heat issues, but I expected those).

I'm surprised you or the machine didn't ground. That looks like the aluminum shielding is exposed.

Not to pick on you, domino, but having repaired expensive medical equipment for several years, I would assume the shielding is for preventing EMF from causing electrical eddies that would taint the power output. Hopefully, the metal apron is not only connected to the shielding, but also to a grounding pin in the power transformer.

That aside, it's still not something that should happen to a power cord that was showcased as being able to withstand someone tripping over it!

I'm glad I decided to wait until v2! (maybe v3, too, at this rate!)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sphereboy/

Man, the original post is really troubling. I don't think it was just a burn. I think the entire MacBook was electrocuted considering the whole machine is a conductor.

Not to pick on you, domino, but having repaired expensive medical equipment for several years, I would assume the shielding is for preventing EMF from causing electrical eddies that would taint the power output. Hopefully, the metal apron is not only connected to the shielding, but also to a grounding pin in the power transformer.

 

That aside, it's still not something that should happen to a power cord that was showcased as being able to withstand someone tripping over it!

 

I'm glad I decided to wait until v2! (maybe v3, too, at this rate!)

Not at all. But considering what happened on not one, but two occasion. What would one conclude? That it's totally safe to use it and not worry about a fire hazard? If the two just happened by such a freak of nature, why did Apple ask to remove the picture instead of face the problem head on? Better yet, ask question to what really happened.

Remember when the iPod Nanos first came out? Everyone I knew was bitching about about how they broke so easily while kept in their back pockets.

Not that they didn't have a right to complain, nor that people are abusing their MBPs. After all, Mac was blistering the television screen with ads they depicted people dancing with Nanos in their back pockets! (among other things)

Anyne know when V.2 is anticipated?

Maybe sometime around WWDC 2006?

Not sure about Rev. B, but they make tweaks as they go along - while I doubt the heat thing will get fixed, the noise thing probably will.

Just got off the phone with Apple. They apparently have an ongoing internal investigation about the MacBook Pro power cables, and they were very interested in getting mine back so they could check it out. I mentioned the burn mark and they didn't seem the slightest bit surprised.

They're overnighting me a new one, so at least I'll be able to use my MacBook again, finally.