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Someday I may publish a history of how OSx86 was originally hacked to run on PCs. I was privy to many of the conversations between those working on the hacks, and it makes for a fascinating story – one of teamwork, secrecy, and intrigue. There are obviously some serious moral (and legal, as we all know…) issues with the x86 hacks, but the way it happened deserves its place in the annals of computing history.

 

Those events last summer remind me of the effort to get XP booting on the new Macintels. In theory, running XP should be significantly easier than surpassing the TPM restrictions on the Developers Transition Kits. This is the case for a host of reasons, not the least of which is that it’s legal! There should be no secrecy regarding the attempts at getting XP to run – there’s no need for it.

 

Yet why aren’t we dual booting already? Money. Most of you are undoubtedly aware of “The Contest,” a 12,000 dollar pot that will be going to the first person to provide a viable dual booting method to the site’s owner Also note the “onmac” network - and advertisements - that the contest has bequeathed to the once minimalist site as well… another interesting commentary on money.

 

Now I have no problem with the idea of a contest, nor the site owner (Colin… who is also a member in our forum) wanting to capitalize on some great site traffic and press.

 

The problem with the contest is that it encourages poor geeks (like me) who could use the extra cash (like me) to try their hand at fixing the problem. In theory this would speed up progress. But in fact it’s had the opposite, somewhat paradoxical effect – it’s slowed things down.

 

This has occurred because said poor geeks (like me) who are working on it know that if they post on a forum with some ideas, those ideas could be taken and used by someone else to earn the money.

 

It’s happened in our forum already – accusations of “don’t expect me to help you - you’re only doing this to win the prize!” have flown with all the certainty of someone who is secretly jealous they didn’t come up with it first. The technical barriers, while substantial, are not the thing that's keeping us from dual booting.

 

It’s all quite predictable – nothing is getting done because the sharing of information has stopped. Were there no contest, IRC channels would be full of dedicated developers sharing what they’d learned through trial and error, swapping ideas and encouraging each other. I've talked with some people who are very close to success... but their efforts are not public. As it stands, sharing what you’ve learned could cost you $12,000.

 

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre is a wonderful Humphrey Bogart film from 1948 – it’s one of the best in cinema history. It tells the story of 3 gold prospectors and the ways in which greed can destroy common goals. When it comes time to share with the others his spoils, the character realizes it's much more advantageous to keep his knowledge to himself. I see this situation as much the same.

 

Money makes it anything but a team effort.

 

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kernalzero

Posted

Buddha

 

 

Thanks

Eggman

Posted

Seems to me we could gather up into little tribes. (Heh, geek tribes :() Then, all we do is work together. Once the solution is found, the money would be split amongst those who did work in the group.

 

Like say A and B are working together. A finds a way to permanently disable the EFI. B then installs Windows. A would get like $8500 and B could get $1500. (I have no real concept of money :D).

ThumperZ1

Posted

Well, except for the actual cash amounts he gave, I sort of agree with Eggman. Get some teams working on the problems, with some sort of reward at the end. :idea:

dinnu504

Posted

Great article Mash...ur soooo true....

 

Well most of you here are saying that once we reach the deadline everything will be back to normal but jus think about it...if "The Contest" was never started there would have been lots of free flow of info and who knows maybe we would be running win xp on a mac by now...

 

Feels good to be with u all here...my first post after joining in aug 05 :)

firebush05

Posted

firebush, that may be a little harsh on the macvidia peeps - they're not actually getting anything out of it. I think theirs is a legitimately slow development cycle.

Ok, yes it was harsh.. it was late last night, and this topic reminded me of the nvidia driver project. If its true that they aren't really up to snuff as the rumors suggest, then I guess there's no point complaining. I do feel that had they released what they had a month ago, we would have fully functional drivers today because of a community effort. But anyway, enough of that rant...

 

I have to agree with the money holding back progress of XP on intelmacs. Its probably better to take the cash off the table. The higher that pot goes, the less chance of getting results from a sharing of minds. I'm suprised that Apple hasn't made a bigger effort to help windows run on their machines! I have several friends, including myself, that are holding off buying the new Macs until we know they are windows compatible.

 

On a side note, anyone else get kernal panics in Safari when posting to this forum? Two times in a row, I've gotten halfway through writing a post and get the spinning beachball, and full lockup of not only Safari, but the finder as well.. blah.

etereo

Posted

From PC Geeks to Harvard MBAs...

 

I just read an article on the lift of the prohibition, from Harvard to their MBAs, to publish grades. It seemed that before, when I was in fact prohibited, MBAs would cooperate with each other and not only help each other out during school but also upon getting new jobs. This since, pretty much just being a Harvard MBA was enough and all the same. Now that the MBAs can publish their grades, they've seen a decline in the coop between students and also in the quality of the material they've produced, since there are less viewpoints per thesis and such.

 

Boy, doesn't this ring a bell...

 

It certainly seems that not only geeks in need of $12000 abandon their camaraderie for the cold hard $, but people also do it the get to earn a couple more thousand per year (over your already 100 thou) than your former class mate. (When I say a couple, I mean a couple)

xeonOSX86

Posted

Lets share the money, I'll share AN answer I got on a viable dual boot Mac OSx86

I have a Gateway 9315 blade server.

It has 2 SATA drives.

I loaded XP on drive "0"

It works like anyone would expect.. fine.

Boot options, BIOS, and Messages are all available upon boot.

Press F-key to enter Bios

Set boot priority on drive "0" to drive "1"

reboot

loaded 81111g from ISO made DVD

Booted fine, wiped drive, used disk utility on install disk

Installed 81111g with "NO" problems

not even a hiccup

writing this from osx86 safari client

video @ 1024*768

enet working fine

 

snip from apple profiler

 

Machine Name: Apple Development Platform

Machine Model: ADP2,1

CPU Type: ADP2,1

Number Of CPUs: 2

CPU Speed: 2.99 GHz

L2 Cache (per CPU): 1 MB

CPU Features: FPU VME DE PSE TSC MSR PAE MCE CX8 APIC SEP MTRR PGE MCA CMOV PAT PSE36 CLFSH DS ACPI MMX FXSR SSE SSE2 SS HTT TM SSE3 MON DSCPL CX16 TPR

Memory: 1 GB

Bus Speed: 800 MHz

Boot ROM Version: SE7320VP20.15A.P.03.00.0029.061720050943 (Intel Corporation)

 

---------

 

To dual boot, I just swap boot priority in bios and save/exit.

I'll post additional as soon as I reboot into XP.

be back in 5 min maybe?

xeonOSX86

Posted

To dual boot, I just swap boot priority in bios and save/exit.

I'll post additional as soon as I reboot into XP.

be back in 5 min maybe?

 

 

OK, I'm back in, on whatever.

Coming to you live from the XP default browser

Explorer with SP2

 

Either I was the accident, or I don't get the requirements.

I have a machine that can start up either OS - at will

without opening it up, from the keyboard, from a WIRELESS keyboard

and I can read from either of my drives

XP formatted NTFS

OSX formatted HFS+ Journalled w/permissions

 

So, Do I WIN?

or was I confused with what you wanted?

 

Your comments welcome, I hope if nothing else, this helps someone get rolling.

 

Louie

johnniecarcinogen

Posted

on official efi macs, man. people have been multibooting since august on regualr x86's.

picture17ii.png

pea

Posted

FRAMEWORKS OF REFERENCE:

 

I'm a bit peeved at my mac today so i'm giving my pc some well deserved screen time on the ol'

cinema display. nice stuff. ok, were was i...

 

on a cosmic level, blue earth spins in the timbuktu of space. life itself is the grandest of all mysteries.

point: there are greater things than computers upon which to spend ones fretting time.

 

there will always be sheer opportunists. there will be people that benefit from your labour regardless of the context. WORK ON OSX86 BECAUSE YOU WANT TO. SHARE YOUR RESULTS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PASSION FOR IT. I'm afraid that witholding your progress finds you behaving no

better than those who would secretly attempt to benefit from it. yes, virginia, there will always be opportunists.

you've just found this out within the context of your passion perhaps.

 

i felt it important to reply. i've taken time out from my day on earth to say:

hey, mate. forget about someone taking the prize and press on. let 'em. it's about all you can do.

they will split off from the pack most likely. they can never really take pride in their prize if they

have in some way stolen it. now..no more {censored} about money. except to remind ourselves that very few

are motivated without personal incentive or benefit. i'm sure it's why apple chose to switch to intel.

money. so if we're going to moan about it, lets start with the bigger of the brothers.

 

peace on earth

pea



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