nagal Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 newtech's comment about being a MacPro1,1 logic board makes perfect sense. You might have some success with the MacPro2,1 (ie V2) logic board. I am very interested in how it turns out because the Harpertowns offer lower heat = less fan speed = less noise AND 12MB of cache As for Mac hardware knowledge, we are chartering some unexplored waters. There is some knowledge out there but not a lot as Mac's in general have not been very upgradable and we are stumbling along blindly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalperformer Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 ..and the end of Apple producing computer hardware about 24 months after that A reputation goes a long way... if they continue to design solid hot-rod hardware they won't be disappearing anytime soon. Competition is good for the consumer and for technology. They can dominate both hardware and software if they go in for the Microsoft Kill!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtech Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Apple is a lot less forthcoming with system descriptions and hardware documentation than they were in years past. Detective work turns up a lot of theory and background information, but theory only gets you so far. Sometimes it is about experimenting, and sometimes that comes hard or at a cost. Oddly some experimenters jealously guard their results, or do not report them at all. Nagal has done the community a great service with his documentation here. I am happy to throw in my $0.02 wherever possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I may be totally wrong here, as I am not a Mac Pro builder, only a Mac Pro owner. My assumption has always been that the first generation Mac Pros used an Intel 5000x chip set which supports the 51xx and 53xx series of Xeons. The second generation (Jan 2008) uses an Intel 5400x chip set which supports the 54xx Xeons, being the Harpertown 45nm fab series. So depending on which chipset is on the logic board purchased, that will dictate which of the Xeons it will support. Intel also switched chipsets on the desktop boards to support the new 45nm Penryn chips as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalperformer Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 same here... I value knowledge and human evolution... intellectual property should be protected but not hidden ; it's not like we're sharing nuclear secrets with North Korea... My pics and detailed information coming soon... I plan on dissecting Apples Power supply and offer illustrations along with measurements and possible non-apple PS replacements. Will do same for logic board and everything else I can get my hands on... http://www.intel.com/products/server/chips...chips_body+servIntel Server Chipsets No mention of 53XX support by 5000X... am I blind?...Anyway, nagal can you read a chipset on your ver 2 logic board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 As usual, I probably need my assumptions adjusted. According to this Intel processor comparison, picking similar processors from the 54xx (45nm) and 53xx (65nm) family, both say they are supported by the 5000 chip set. http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart.asp...p;culture=en-US Only time will tell. Now I'm very interested in this outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagal Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 I found this and posted it a few pages back http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart.asp...p;culture=en-US It seems to imply that ANY of the 54xx processors should work with the 5000X Chipset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I found this and posted it a few pages back http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart.asp...p;culture=en-US It seems to imply that ANY of the 54xx processors should work with the 5000X Chipset. Cool, so the only thing that might be questionable will be the firmware on the logic board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagal Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 That is my thinking that it is a firmware issue. But if it is a firmware issue we are screwed as I see no way around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtech Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Yes, Intel advertises 54xx work with the 5000X chipset, at a maximum FSB of 1333 MHz. No good reason why 54xx would not work in MP 1,1/2,1 other than SMC firmware not handling them properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalperformer Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 you guys are the F**king BEST!!! You guys can break bread with me anytime! Nagal, anyway to patch the firmware if that's the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagal Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 you guys are the F**king BEST!!! You guys can break bread with me anytime! Nagal, anyway to patch the firmware if that's the case? I am sure there is but it is WAY beyond my skills as I found out with my 1st logic board that came with an Apple Development Firmware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtech Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 My on-going research is dissecting SMC firmware and bootROM and their installers. Sadly my progress is slow and has turned up little helpful info so far, reading undocumented source code is like trying to read japanese when you don't speak it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalperformer Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I have a silly question, what's the difference between LGA 771 and Socket 771? Compatible? Newegg has Clovertown Xeons, however, they're socket 771. According to wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_socket socket J is the type for both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagal Posted February 9, 2008 Author Share Posted February 9, 2008 Socket 771 and LGA 771 are the same thing for the most part. I believe in correct usage LGA 771 refers to the actually CPU while Socket 771 refers to the socket type of the motherboard or in our case logic board. You are fine as long as you stay 771 but note that Intel does make LGA 775 Xeons which are super inexpensive but won't work for us. Firmware Update:I just tried the Mac Pro EFI Update and got the message saying you do not need this update instead of the message that use to say update not for this product or something like that. So, I am finally really recognized as a Mac Pro Interesting note is the current EFI update gives a firmware of MP21.007F.B06 for MacPro 2,1. The firmware on my logic board is MP21.007F.B08. Looks like I got a slightly newer firmware than whats available. Makes me feel special I also "fixed" my About this Mac and System Profiler to show data more appealing to me. I could have put in anything but I just wanted it to reflect the truth It would be nice to actually have 3.0 Ghz but looks like my ES must have been bottom of the barrel due to the clock speed only being 8x instead of 9x. If digitalperformers Harpertown experiment works, I will probably start saving up for those. For now 8 x 2.4 GHz is working well for me. Running Logic last night on a new song with some pretty heavy VI and Effects, computer did not even break a sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqua-mac Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Hey nagal, you could also fix the serial if you wanted with an edit to system profiler (SPPlatform Reporter). "System Serial#"="M3405946578"; Or whatever number is on your board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtech Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I have a silly question, what's the difference between LGA 771 and Socket 771? Compatible? Newegg has Clovertown Xeons, however, they're socket 771. According to wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_socket socket J is the type for both... The Xeon connection is called Socket J the physical contacts are a Land Grid Array (of) 771(contacts), the contacts are called lands as opposed to pins on earlier package types. The switch form pins to lands accomplished a few things, first eliminated the posibility of bent or broken pins. Second provided a more reliable Zero Insertion Force to be used to install the CPU. Third, lands can accept a higher current density reducing the number of connections required to carry power. The better solution on the serial number would be Blank Board Serializer, should you be able to find or get a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalperformer Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Nagal and NEWTECH!!! thank you for the clarification; it certainly helps. As you can tell I'm a Digital Performer advocate.. I love it to death. I also like logic but DP has been my faithful squeeze, never let me down... If Apple implements user correctable pitch correction I might consider using logic more often. I heard next DP release will have distributive network processing... DROOLLLLLL.. ApplePalace called me to confirm shipment has been made; now the wait game.... Nagal, applepalace's rep told me that he spoke to another person who was doing the same thing as me... I started to smile Let the build begin!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqua-mac Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Newtech, Yes BBS would be the way to go, but I was not aware you could find the cd unless you were an Apple tech. Is it available as a download? I think the latest versions allow you to enter a serial only if there is not one there already, so nagal should be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtech Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Personally I have looked high and low and under many rocks for BBS without success, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there in the wild somewhere. The one shot version is the only one distributed to AASP's, the unlimited one is closely guarded by Apple as it can have potential for horrible abuse. Technically the MLB S/N is not the system S/N or else it would be embedded already. The system S/N is the one on the case sticker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted_account Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 What does "BBS" mean in these terms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtech Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 BBS = Blank Board Serializer, a utility that flashes a serial number into the flashEEPROM on service part/refurbished motherboards. Some rare applications will not run on a machine that does not have a hardware serial number in ROM. Also Apple tracks warranty satus by system serial number. Anytime a logic board is swapped out by an AASP the new board SHOULD be flashed to match with the S/N on the case/enclosure and have new MAC address labels applied to match the MAC address on the boards ethernet controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harloe Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Hey nagal, so how have you actually been recognised as a Mac Pro now? Via just using official Apple parts or did you have to do any flashing to anything? Also do you have a link to some Dual Core Xeons? I only want a 4 core machine, preferably a UK site. Thanks man! We should start a Mac Pro blog to help fellow builders =] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagal Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share Posted February 10, 2008 BBS would be ideal but Text Edit works in a pinch. I wonder if I take it into my local Apple repair place if they will flash the serial number for me? Something tells me I doubt it For SystemProfiler I had to use the key "System Sal#" instead of "System Serial#". That is the serial # from the case and it is a good one with Apple too as I found that out when I called them when trying to figure out how to force flash the EFI. Of course, if I took my Mac Pro into an Apple Store I am sure some eyebrows would be raised. Kimosabe, the only "hack" I had to do to get my system recognized as a Mac Pro was to use an actually release Mac Pro logic board I am thinking of doing a fresh re-install of Leopard so it will say "michael-whiteheads-MacPro2,1"" instead of "michael-whiteheads-m43adp11". Yes if you haven't figured it out, little things like that drive me nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrupted Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Or just change your Computer Name under Sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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