Linux Jumps on the EFI Train

[Swad]

Although "mum" is still the word from Redmond (and, for that matter, any English speaker outside the U.S. saying "mom"), Red Hat has announced their intention to support the new Macintels along with their EFI trimmings. That is, as soon as Red Hat actually buys one.

 

As Ars Technica notes, Linux support EFI has existed for some time.

Linux EFI support already exists in the form of elilo, a special version of the LILO bootloader designed specifically for Intel systems that use EFI and the IA64 architecture. The current elilo code base will have to be ported to Intel's x86 architecture before it can be integrated into Linux distributions capable of running on Apple's new systems.

 

Although such a port is theoretically possible, members of the Ars Technica Linux community have pointed out that bootloaders are generally written with plenty of assembly, and consequently are not easily ported. Elilo is not particularly stable and Red Hat representatives have not discussed the methodology they plan to use, so the solution could end up being something else entirely.

In other news, Ars also wins the award for Best In Show in the national “Longest Run-on Sentence Competition.”

Since Mac OS X operating system is based in part on BSD, and since running Linux on Apple's new hardware will not provide any unique or compelling advantage over running it on commodity x86 hardware from vendors like Dell and HP (Apple's benchmarks aside, pretty cases do not improve the performance of a laptop's software), some users and developers feel that such porting efforts are unnecessary.

[DrJägermeister]

A big company like Microsoft have the resources to make XP bootable on a iMac, now a small company (compared to Microsoft) like Red Hat will make Linux bootable on a iMac.

It seems that Microsoft just don't want to do it.

[rmasci]

The question I have is why... Unless the new mac is considerably faster than an intel based Dell, why waste the effort? I don't want a Mac because of the hardware... yeah it's cool looking but in the end it's what runs on it that's important to me. I would buy a mac to be able to run OS X, if I want a Red hat box, I'll buy a Dell. IMHO Dell offeres a better Intel platform than Apple, and they're cheaper too. Right now I won't buy any Apple until they release OS X for any Intel based system.

[p4m]

I suppose that EFI will replace the BIOS entirely starting from Apple hardware

It's only a matter of time

So Linux (GRUB?) will follow this direction on the x86 architecture booting mechanism anyway

- Sorry for my bad english -

I think also that the "news" from RedHat is only to make some "rumors" about linux

[acquire]

But if elilo can boot linux,cant it boot windows?Sorry if this is foolish bcoz i dont have much idea abt efi

[lord_muad_dib]

The question I have is why...

[snip]

 

lol and if you are a software developer? do you will buy 2 pcs with the SAME architecture just because you must run different operating systems?

 

i will never buy an imac if i can't boot others than macosX

 

But if elilo can boot linux,cant it boot windows?Sorry if this is foolish bcoz i dont have much idea abt efi

 

well linux has got efi support since the early first versions of 2.6 kernels (so... about 2 years)

 

the reason that windows won't boot on efi is just because (in easy words) its kernel hasn't got a "kernel extension" for efi.

 

due this reason it's not just a metter of porting elilo to ai32.. windows prior vista won't work for sure, until microsoft will release a patch, as it seems that apple's efi doesn't have bios legacy support

 

in addition there is a different partition table so hopes r even less

[Sven A.]

Linux EFI support already exists in the form of elilo, a special version of the LILO bootloader designed specifically for Intel systems that use EFI and the IA64 architecture. The current elilo code base will have to be ported to Intel's x86 architecture before it can be integrated into Linux distributions capable of running on Apple's new systems.

Although such a port is theoretically possible, members of the Ars Technica Linux community have pointed out that bootloaders are generally written with plenty of assembly, and consequently are not easily ported.

 

I tought the EFI features a virtual machine, so there is no need for assembly here?! I am wrong?

 

Since Mac OS X operating system is based in part on BSD, and since running Linux on Apple's new hardware will not provide any unique or compelling advantage over running it on commodity x86 hardware from vendors like Dell and HP, some users and developers feel that such porting efforts are unnecessary.

 

Ok, Apple is based on a Uni* too, but as a developer for Linux, I need Linux itself. And I can do this on an Apple it would be nice... The advantage having a second Uni* on my machine (here BSD), is to improve code quality by testing the applications on another type of Uni*.

[-.-]

What is there to like about efi? If the makers of an op system want to replace your bios, it is no longer just an op system, its a virus.

[carac86]

The question I have is why... Unless the new mac is considerably faster than an intel based Dell, why waste the effort? I don't want a Mac because of the hardware... yeah it's cool looking but in the end it's what runs on it that's important to me. I would buy a mac to be able to run OS X, if I want a Red hat box, I'll buy a Dell. IMHO Dell offeres a better Intel platform than Apple, and they're cheaper too. Right now I won't buy any Apple until they release OS X for any Intel based system.

 

FINALLY somebody with some brains - why pay for the overpriced and totally non-standard (also slightly underpowered) Apple machines when you can buy something better from an open market where many companies compete to provide the consumer with the best "bang for the buck" ????

 

Yes, I subscribe to that - I would take a Dell X1 any moment over ANY notebook from Apple !!!

[p4m]

In these past years I've bought a lot of computers, Apples and PCs.

Everytime I promise myself do not buy anymore a PC.

{censored} {censored} {censored}: noise, no battery after 2 months, inexistent design... Fujtsu, Dell or HP is the same.

- just my opinion -

anyway I've ordered an iMac 20' Intel Core Duo today

[xtraa]

What is there to like about efi? If the makers of an op system want to replace your bios, it is no longer just an op system, its a virus.

 

the bios as we know it is getting very old now, and there was time fo something new.

 

The advantage of EFi in short is that you can set up to 128 partitions on one disk. and also one disk can

have a size up to 18 extrabyte (whatever that is). Also it is based on C, means it is not nearly so vulnerable

for errors and much much easier to program than assembler. Also EFI has highly speed up suspend and

wakeup times and will be compatible to any platform. Network booting even need no drivers anymore.

The EFI Framework consists of a simple Rom with only the startup-basics on it, and the EFI "OS" itself,

with the drivers on it. This EFI-"OS" will also communicate between the Hardware and your OS e.g. Linux.

 

The downside is that the drivers needs signatures, what can be expensive, and the TCP possibilities.

 

FINALLY somebody with some brains - why pay for the overpriced and totally non-standard (also slightly underpowered) Apple machines when you can buy something better from an open market where many companies compete to provide the consumer with the best "bang for the buck" ????

 

I could comprehend until you reached this line:

 

Yes, I subscribe to that - I would take a Dell X1 any moment over ANY notebook from Apple !!!

 

Dell? Isn't Dell expensive, too? in this case, i would really prefer to bite into the Apple.

 

Compare how much you would get for both machines if you sell them after 1.5 years at eBay.

Edited January 26, 2006 by xtraa

[efinnerty]

But if elilo can boot linux,cant it boot windows?Sorry if this is foolish bcoz i dont have much idea abt efi

 

Linux doesn't rely on the BIOS for the OS to actually function, since it is portable to many other non-Intel architectures that don't have a BIOS. So moving Linux to EFI doesn't require much more than that bootloader (there may be a couple places the kernel peeks at the BIOS for a hint, I'm unsure).

 

On the other hand, WinXP probably is a BIOS beast, so you'll need a BIOS emulation module for EFI. But I thought BIOS emulation was a possible EFI feature?

[R. Bear Helms]

It's not clear to me what form the "firmware" takes in the EFI model shown on the Intel website. Could it be that it IS a BIOS, and if you have an old OS that doesn't want, need, or use EFI, you probably could still boot it?

 

The EFI layer between the firmware and the OS isn't crystal clear to me - I tend to nod off trying to read technical papers and presentations. Is it an expanded loader, or is it an integral hardware control layer between the OS and the actual hardware?

[Ouch]

A big company like Microsoft have the resources to make XP bootable on a iMac, now a small company (compared to Microsoft) like Red Hat will make Linux bootable on a iMac.

It seems that Microsoft just don't want to do it.

 

Exactly.

 

Why would thye want to change windows xp boot natively on mac when you can force them to buy a virtual pc license along with an xp license instead. (Well assuming they make an intel version of virtual pc.)

[cyrana]

Sounds like good news to me. Red Hat is a lot smaller than Microsoft, so a bit more nimble in doing things like this, btw. I'm sure a build of Vista in the near future will also boot on them, I mean they can still make money either way.

 

As for the 'why'... Well, It would be useful for me at work to boot linux sometimes, although I do greatly prefer OS X for what I do. And, in regards to an earlier post, these Macs aren't really underpowered when you're looking at a laptop in the 5lb range. (ok, rhetoric>).

[minko]

Fact is:

 

OS X is a great OS. A lot of PC users that had the possibility to run OS X on their machines, are now infected with the OSX Virus.

 

It's not fear to say that the Macintels are underpowered, because they dont only offer a piece of Hardware, they offer an innovative system that revolutionize the digital life! I work since years with Macs and PC's, and for me, it's like a lifestyle..