Jump to content

Will New Intel Macs Run Windows?

Swad

By Swad,
in Front Page News and Rumors

 Share
146 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

JoeP
JoeP
Posted
Posted
Hmmm, probably I'm not really up to date, therefore my question: has there ever been a virtualisation software in existence that allows 3D-acceleration, or even the acceleration of video playback? I cannot remember anything.

Insignia's RealPC if i remember well. It dates back to... 1997 or so.

 

VPC has a lot of code written in assembly. As such, I am wondering how much they can leverage directly from the windows version. Needless to say, this product is not that easy to re-write and publish.

the assembly code is used to speed up CPU emulation on the current mac version.

there is NO cpu emulation in the Windows version of VPC, neither will be in OSX86 version.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
daenney
daenney
Posted
Posted

Actually no, the new Apple's don't run windows.

Apple implemented the EFI which allow for example a pc to be conencted to the internet before the OS boots, which is very handy for remote management.

Windows XP and prior do not support EFI and hence will not install on the Intel-Mac's.

Windows XP x64 is the only windows edition which supports EFI but since the new Intel-Macs are delivered in 32bits there's no use to that either.

 

Vista is expected to ahve EFI support and hence should be installable on the new Intel-Macs

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest terry
Guest terry
Posted
Posted
Actually no, the new Apple's don't run windows.

Please, read the whole thread before posting. Nobody was able to try this out yet, so there is still the possibility that it will work via legacy support in EFI, if Apple implemented this. And dual-booting from the same hard drive is yet another question.

 

Windows XP x64 is the only windows edition which supports EFI

No, this has been discussed before. The EFI-enabled Windows XP version is the 64-bit edition for Intel Itanium CPUs, a totally different processor architecture (IA-64) than IA-32 with EMT64/AMD64 extensions, for which the x64 edition (without EFI-support) has been released.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
niteice
niteice
Posted
Posted

In other words, there are two 64-bit versions of Windows XP:

Windows XP Professional 64-bit IA-64

Windows XP Professional 64-bit AMD64

 

Think that terminology works better?

 

As for dual-booting Windows, it most likely won't happen. Apple has no reason to enable legacy BIOS support in EFI. However, dual-booting Linux may be possible as elilo can boot Linux from EFI, apparently on 32-bit systems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
johnniecarcinogen
johnniecarcinogen
Posted
Posted (edited)
Are you sure about that?

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/GPT_FAQ.mspx clearly states that 32bit windows will NOT support GPT.

 

OS X will be the OS that uses the GPT and as long as its boot loader points to XP it will boot. So you will probably have to have OS X installed on your MacBook to run a version of windows that doesnt have a GPT bootloader. Around service pack 3 time they will probably add EFI support though.

Edited by johnniecarcinogen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted (edited)

The new Core Duo Macs should be able to emulate BIOS with an EFI Compatibility Support Module (CSM) and hence run Windows:

 

CSM - Compatibility Support Module

This module provides the legacy BIOS run-time compatibility for current operating systems and Option ROMs. It also provides robust USB-legacy support. Versions are available to support a variety of product segments.

 

152_archi.JPG

 

http://www.insydesw.com.tw/en/Ps.asp?id=167

 

Is [EFI] compatible with traditional BIOS?

 

Yes. [EFI] provides the capability to support legacy BIOS interfaces through the Compatibility Support Module (CSM), allowing the system vendors to continue using the operating systems and tools they use today as they make a gradual and managed transition to EFI. A typical CSM is approximately 60 KB (38 KB compressed) of firmware that is specific to each Participating BIOS Vendor and is based on that Vendor's latest BIOS code base.

 

http://www.intel.com/technology/framework/qanda.htm

Edited by bofors
Link to comment
Share on other sites
t0fukrunch
t0fukrunch
Posted
Posted
The first steppings of Core Duo do not feature VT. It may be already present in the core, but it isn't activated yet.

Would you point us to a source for this information? The information I was able to dig up is vague: "Intel also said the platform will have the firm's Virtualization Technology (VT) in the first half of 2006," from this article.

 

Both the core duo datasheets and product brief only list Intel VT as a feature of the core duo without going into detail. An update to the datasheet even includes specific processor numbers and stepping information but states nothing about VT being disabled or inaccessible; however, on the other hand, nowhere is it explicitly stated that the initial C-0 steppings have VT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DaffyDuck
DaffyDuck
Posted
Posted

Apple has filed a patent application for what is essential a dual-boot feature, listing an operating system to have a primary and a secondary OS (and Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux were listed as examples) - so, SOMETHING is coming down the pipe.

 

Apple has clearly stated that they will not prevent people from RUNNING Windows on these intel Macs... no one said anything about BOOTING Windows on them.

 

Most likely we'll see an eventual solution that takes advantage of virtualization, but before that most likely the various emulator makers (or Virtual Environments) will release a solution that allows installing and running Windows in a window, or full-screen, running from drive partitions or drive files (just as quemu, WINE, VMware, etc... are doing... In fact, WMware is working on an OS x86 version of their product -- that's where I would be putting my $$$. (Yeah, MS has announced they will work on something, but we know that product will suck, and will ship late).

 

VMWare all the way -- until Apple provides something integrated.

 

DD

Link to comment
Share on other sites
KublaKhan
KublaKhan
Posted
Posted (edited)

Since we won't know for sure if Windows will dual boot yet, I am wondering what free/opensource virtualization program will be the best to use. I know Qemu will be slow, and therefore, would gladly like to see Xen's virtualization abilities ported to the intel Mac with full Windows support. I don't know if this will be possible (from what I heard it's illegal... I don't know why.... ) But, apparently, if anyone else is looking for the fastest free way to virtually run Windows on a Mac I think Xen would be the best option if it were quickly developed for this situation.

 

If anyone more knowledgeable could enlighten us on what is the most forseeable (open source, free) solution to Windows virtualization on a the Intel Mac I would be glad to hear it.

 

By the way, I was wondering if anyone knows if ReactOS will be able to boot under the Intel Mac.

 

The best virtualization would be if someone would take the PearPC project's source and made another opensource project based on it allowing Windows virtualization on an Intel Mac - although I don't know if that would help at all.

 

So many questions - By the way, I just read on Engadget that we should wait for better Intel Macs - coming soon. They supposedly weren't able to announce and ship them due to shortages in Intel's chips.

Here's the link: http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/12/did-sho...r-intel-models/

 

What do you guys think about that^

I'm hoping it's true and am waiting - I mean we have to wait till February for the MacBooks to ship anyway...

 

KublaKhan

Edited by KublaKhan
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cyrana
cyrana
Posted
Posted

Anyone have a link to ATi stating that they have special firmware to run on these macs, and that it isn't a normal PC one? I know I saw it, and now I can't find it. That would seem to imply no BIOS compatibility layer in Apple's EFI, since I can't seem to see why they'd need special firmware otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted (edited)
That would seem to imply no BIOS compatibility layer in Apple's EFI...

 

My impression is that EFI is like BIOS whereas it is open to be implemented by a variety of vendors. So while Apple probably hasn't implemented any compatitibility layer, nothing is standing in the way of someone making their own EFI implementation that does emulate some BIOS and also loads OSx86.

 

 

In short, EFI is supposed to be much more flexible than BIOS and also explictly designed to emulate BIOS during this firmware transition. Given that EFI is Intel's baby, the significant role Intel is playing with Apple's x86 motherboards and the fact that Apple has clearly expressed no inclination to stop people from running Windows on Apple hardware but rather stands to benefit by providing such flexibility, we should expect that the new Core Duo Macs will be readily adaptable to dual booting.

Edited by bofors
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cyrana
cyrana
Posted
Posted

Someone find that ATi link for me. DO MY BIDDING! :blink:

 

Seriously it is bugging me. Wouldn't a custom firmware cause problems running Windows as well?

 

EDIT: HERE IT IS: http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ID=12680

 

...

When asked about using a PC ATI card in a Mac, however, it was pointed out that the Mac cards still feature different firmware sets as well as use different drivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted (edited)
Apple has filed a patent application for what is essential a dual-boot feature, listing an operating system to have a primary and a secondary OS (and Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux were listed as examples) - so, SOMETHING is coming down the pipe.

 

Link? This very well may be (or include) some EFI CSM. Again, Apple has an interest in providing hardware and software that integrates well with Windows and Linux. They sell more that way and also convert more people to OS X.

 

 

"When asked about using a PC ATI card in a Mac, however, it was pointed out that the Mac cards still feature different firmware sets as well as use different drivers."

 

So it sounds like normal PC ATI x1600 cards may have to be flashed to run on OSx86 boxes (with the new drivers in 10.4.4)?

Edited by bofors
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OryHara
OryHara
Posted
Posted

Who cares about windows. I havn't used it since 1996. What I want to know is... Will it run Linux?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
roryconlin
roryconlin
Posted
Posted

I was just doing some research on the Dell laptops that offer Core Duo chips

found here: http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/f...s=04&l=en&s=bsd

 

it seems that they may use the same chips as the new macs, as according to intel there is only 1 chip that runs at 1.83 GHz and 1 that runs at 2.0GHz

 

here: http://www.intel.com/products/processor/coreduo/specs.htm

 

I'm still not sure of exactly what EFI is, but if it is at the processor level, which i think it is, then the fact that dell has XP running on the chips means that there must be legacy BIOS support, at least on some chips.

 

But my real question is, will the new OS X 10.4.4 for intels, and the new universal programs be able to run on an intel based PC?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
INFNITE
INFNITE
Posted
Posted
I was just doing some research on the Dell laptops that offer Core Duo chips

found here: http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/f...s=04&l=en&s=bsd

 

it seems that they may use the same chips as the new macs, as according to intel there is only 1 chip that runs at 1.83 GHz and 1 that runs at 2.0GHz

 

here: http://www.intel.com/products/processor/coreduo/specs.htm

 

I'm still not sure of exactly what EFI is, but if it is at the processor level, which i think it is, then the fact that dell has XP running on the chips means that there must be legacy BIOS support, at least on some chips.

 

But my real question is, will the new OS X 10.4.4 for intels, and the new universal programs be able to run on an intel based PC?

 

no, EFI is NOT at the processor level. It is an on board programmable flash memory that is read by the system when the system is powered on. It is completely separate from the processor.

 

It is highly unlikely that OS X will run on regular PC's in the near future. Apple must have implemented multiple security layers to prevent such from happening. We don't even know how to bypass EFI at this very moment. Windows will be running on MacTels before OS X starts to run on regular white box pcs

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cyrana
cyrana
Posted
Posted
This is big, big trouble... different firmware in all hardware for OSX86... makes impossible dualboot in PCs or Macs.

I'm going to stick to my assumption that it is somehow an EFI thing. I honestly can't think of another reason for this (especially since a compatibility layer is optional). If that is the case, at least Vista should be fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...