Bunch of illegals

[wildcat69410]

You are right, however, calling somebody a criminal has different connotations, its like calling them rapists or killers, but really they just live somewhere different than where they were born...which...I dunno...I don't really consider that crime...

 

When they do it by bypassing the legal regulatory measures, then it becomes illegal. I'm sure nobody here considers immigration itself a crime, or an overtly negative impact upon our nation. It's doing it illegally, taking advantage of whatever welfare benefits they can get, and creating a strain upon the economy that is the problem.

[gwprod12]

It might be interesting to live in a universe where laws are only amusing trifles to be shirked at convenience.

 

Cop to Robber: You just stole that, it's a crime. I'm arresting you.

Robber to Cop: I don't really consider it a crime. So, it's okay.

Cop to Robber: You've got me there. Nevermind. Have a nice day.

[LifeDroidGenesis7007]

Good points gw and killbot. The point is that if the government and the law concider something in America criminal then it is in fact criminal. The philosophy about what is actually a criminal act can be argued left and right, but it doesn't much matter because people still get thrown in jail for government sanctioned criminal acts. Illegal immigration is in fact illegal, just like jay-walking or stealing, it caries the burden of the word "criminal" with it.

Now we can argue to either keep illegal immigration criminal and fight this.......... um.... threat. Or we can try to make it more legal, but until that happens, under this government that us Americans are part of it is a judiciary crime.

[gwprod12]

Many people object to guest worker programs, as they are amnesty. How are they amnesty? When someone has committed criminal acts that are not in question, excusing those acts is an amnesty.

 

If we need a guest worker program, let's create one. But all of the guest workers must not have illegally immigrated to this country.

 

Illegal aliens by their very nature lie, cheat and steal. Boot em out.

 

On a side note, I have many friends who are illegal aliens. I'm trying to figure out how to reconcile these things.

[macgirl]

As you reconcile that you are a criminal too?

 

or you never did anything against the law?

[Azurael]

Before I begin my rant, I should probably point out that it probably doesn't apply to the majority of intelligent people who post in a forum like this, with the possible exception of people like the OP...

 

If the USA breaks down into racial warfare, I won't be surprised or upset. I'm not saying that illegal immigrants are in the right at all (though doubtless I'll be called a sympathiser for saying this...) but never before has such an intolerant nation of bigots existed.

 

We are talking about a country of which the only meaningful history is of oppression; a history which began through the mistreatment and theft of land from natives, one which progressed to outright contempt for and potentially the murder of anybody who even dared suggest that somebody with different coloured skin might deserve rights and who has an equally grim history of oppressing blacks, people of Oriental origin and Hispanics, along with anybody else they didn't like the look of. A country where racism is still effectively institutionalised and anybody who doesn't fit into the WASP stereotype isn't at parity with those who do in the opportunities available to them. And a country which is now permanently ruled by a bunch of extreme right neo-facists on a mission to spread the word of God to those 'heathens' in the Middle East, is it any surprise the whole world is developing a contempt for the 'land of the free'?

 

Edit: Sorry about this rant, I really am, but posts like the OP's are designed to incite conflict and are clearly just flamebait. I genuinely am not talking about the vast majority of American citizens I meet in my daily life and online, but I do think it's a pretty {censored} country, especially with regard to its administration and the hypocrisy it preaches to the world.

[killbot1000]

Before I begin my rant, I should probably point out that it probably doesn't apply to the majority of intelligent people who post in a forum like this, with the possible exception of people like the OP...

 

If the USA breaks down into racial warfare, I won't be surprised or upset. I'm not saying that illegal immigrants are in the right at all (though doubtless I'll be called a sympathiser for saying this...) but never before has such an intolerant nation of bigots existed.

 

We are talking about a country of which the only meaningful history is of oppression; a history which began through the mistreatment and theft of land from natives, one which progressed to outright contempt for and potentially the murder of anybody who even dared suggest that somebody with different coloured skin might deserve rights and who has an equally grim history of oppressing blacks, people of Oriental origin and Hispanics, along with anybody else they didn't like the look of. A country where racism is still effectively institutionalised and anybody who doesn't fit into the WASP stereotype isn't at parity with those who do in the opportunities available to them. And a country which is now permanently ruled by a bunch of extreme right neo-facists on a mission to spread the word of God to those 'heathens' in the Middle East, is it any surprise the whole world is developing a contempt for the 'land of the free'?

 

Edit: Sorry about this rant, I really am, but posts like the OP's are designed to incite conflict and are clearly just flamebait. I genuinely am not talking about the vast majority of American citizens I meet in my daily life and online, but I do think it's a pretty {censored} country, especially with regard to its administration and hypocrisy.

 

Not surprising at all!

[gwprod12]

The united states will never break down into racial warfare. Why? Because racism and intollerance between ethnicities is almost exclusively worse in other countries. Especially European countries.

[jgrimes80]

The united states will never break down into racial warfare. Why? Because racism and intollerance between ethnicities is almost exclusively worse in other countries. Especially European countries.

 

Agreed...

 

Racism only exists to give the American population something to do... Face it, it's because we're bored and have nothing more important to focus on.

[LifeDroidGenesis7007]

Every country in the world is racist about something. We Americans just really, really like to yell about our problems (which are usually philosophical or scientifically based). Nothing is really ever done here to improve any real legitimate social problems, we only do things, or fix things, or make things worse, so that we'll make even more money later. Not like America is the only country to act like this, it's just that we really, really like yelling and we're ridiculously popular. We are certainly the loud, jock in highschool, who says he's religious because his mom and dad are, who is popular for his looks and ability in competition, and who will one day become an important senator, business-man and grade-triple-A douche-bag. But hey, we can all look forward to his inevitable death from cholesterol.

[killbot1000]

Every country in the world is racist about something. We Americans just really, really like to yell about our problems (which are usually philosophical or scientifically based). Nothing is really ever done here to improve any real legitimate social problems, we only do things, or fix things, or make things worse, so that we'll make even more money later. Not like America is the only country to act like this, it's just that we really, really like yelling and we're ridiculously popular. We are certainly the loud, jock in highschool, who says he's religious because his mom and dad are, who is popular for his looks and ability in competition, and who will one day become an important senator, business-man and grade-triple-A douche-bag. But hey, we can all look forward to his inevitable death from cholesterol.

 

Indeed, it is so!

[PaulusUK]

The united states will never break down into racial warfare. Why? Because racism and intollerance between ethnicities is almost exclusively worse in other countries. Especially European countries.

 

THAT is ignorance, if I've ever seen it. Have you ever been to Europe to make these conclusions?

 

I don't think that the stuff going on in other countries will influence this... not like the American administration to be compassionate and considering to other countries current affairs anyway is it?

[LifeDroidGenesis7007]

I don't think that the stuff going on in other countries will influence this... not like the American administration to be compassionate and considering to other countries current affairs anyway is it?

 

Yeah we don't really do the whole compassion, consideration or understanding thing over here...... we also don't live right next to any European countries (unless you count those moose in Canada, I don't...).

[gwprod12]

Paulus UK: I guess there is debate on whether or not the Holocaust or the Pogroms or the Ethnic Cleansings of *goslavia took place. The slaughter of the Indians during the war of independence on the part of Britain, the genocide of the moors by the Spanish, etc... By bad.

 

As far as I know, the United States has not systematically rounded up millions of citizens and murdered them...

 

Sure, the US isn't so wonderful and we have our share of attrocities... but to have our fair share, we'd really need to have blood running in the streets.

 

So, tell me again about Ignorance.

 

On a side note, considering how most other countries have dealt with ethnic rivalry, as it were (by exterminating the minority race), I think we're doing fairly well in the realm of cultural sensitivity.

[OryHara]

play nice...

He doesn't pay taxes, but believe it or not, but MANY illegal immigrants do. SS#'s aren't used for nothing...

He DOES make more than minimum wage.

He run his own lawn care service under my name <- but I keep forgetting to 1099 him ....not! And that would mean his share of taxes ARE getting paid (by me though).

 

So deportation of all illegal immigrants is the answer?

 

It's not a naturalization issue?

It's not a processing issue?

If they bear no economic benefit, we should spend MORE money on immigration enforcement not only for initial implementation, but sustainment?

 

Then he needs to register, and get his card so he can be legal. I don't believe in SS numbers since they are unconstitutional.

 

wow i am an idiot, i guess thats how i am going to a university and high school at the age 16 and taking two AP classes as well. i am trying to make a point that people like you live in the middle of hick town and dont have any idea who immigrants are. you get it fed to you by the news or some one else who most likely has a biased opinion. They are normal people like you and me trying to get a better life. not in any way am i advocating tons of people coming across the border illegally. but you have to have empathy and understand where they are coming from. i can confidently say you have never been to Mexico and you dont see why they would be motivated to do something as drastic as crossing a international border illegally. You said you would expect to be deported if you went to a country illegally but you have not had any reason to move. You said your grandfather fought in WWII and he fought for freedom in a nation where people can come and get a better life. As long as people are living in a place like Mexico and have something with so many possibilities just a few miles away of course they will come. It is no ones fault for this but the Government. And now a fence strethcing the Mexican/American border is being proposed. Here in San Diego it is common for an underground tunnel to be found. A fence will not stop people from getting a better life. How to solve the problem is stil up for debate. Just stop tying to generalize a group of people as immigrants that come here to take Americans money.

 

Again, yes. The topic is ILLEGAL immigrants. Not immigrants. As someone else stated. Everyone in this country at some point had a immigrant as a relative. Big difference.

 

It might be interesting to live in a universe where laws are only amusing trifles to be shirked at convenience.

 

Cop to Robber: You just stole that, it's a crime. I'm arresting you.

Robber to Cop: I don't really consider it a crime. So, it's okay.

Cop to Robber: You've got me there. Nevermind. Have a nice day.

 

Good point.

[Azurael]

we're ridiculously popular.

 

I don't think you'd have that impression if you'd ever been to Europe... Or Asia... Or anywhere outside the US that's not an improptu US administration, actually...

[OryHara]

I don't think you'd have that impression if you'd ever been to Europe... Or Asia... Or anywhere outside the US that's not an improptu US administration, actually...

 

The US is the most hated country in all the known world. Why? Current foreign policy.

[killbot1000]

I don't think you'd have that impression if you'd ever been to Europe... Or Asia... Or anywhere outside the US that's not an improptu US administration, actually...

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Lifedroidgenesis, but I think he meant popular as in famous, or talked about, whether it be good or bad... (I can conclude bad)

[LifeDroidGenesis7007]

I don't think you'd have that impression if you'd ever been to Europe... Or Asia... Or anywhere outside the US that's not an improptu US administration, actually...

Oh Azurael, popular doesn't mean loved, liked or even talked about! The US is on a lot of people's minds right now and it certainly has been for at least the past hundred years (you know, us showing up and saving the entirety of Europe and Asia and all that back in the forties, we were definitely popular then at least...). The entire Middle East is thinking about us, we are definitely thinking about ourselves, Mexico is constantly thinking about us, and so are all the countries that make our {censored} in Asia, India and even Africa. We have our hands in a lot of things right now, more than any other country in the world.

I don't mean America is popular like a beloved Monty Python dressed in drag, it's popular by force, coersion and economy.

Also Azurael, and serioulsy no offense because I like responding to your comment, you should write more next time, I wasn't quite sure what you meant...

[jgrimes80]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070517/ap_on_...a8qzF5jDu6s0NUE

 

Curious to see the results...

 

Oyhara - if legislation like this goes through and illegals become legal, does that change your views on them?

[Azurael]

Oh Azurael, popular doesn't mean loved, liked or even talked about! The US is on a lot of people's minds right now and it certainly has been for at least the past hundred years

Well, I've only heard the word popular used in a positive sense before, so pardon my misunderstanding you.

 

(you know, us showing up and saving the entirety of Europe and Asia and all that back in the forties, we were definitely popular then at least...)

I think you'll find it was Russia that actually saved Europe militarily, and Hitler's misguided belief that he could attack Russia in the winter (perhaps he should've learned from Napoleon?), which is why I find it awfully amusing that all American war movies make the US out to be the hero that single handedly turned the war effort round. That said, without financial intervention in the form of Marshall aid from the US in the post-war years, Europe would almost certainly have fallen apart.

 

The entire Middle East is thinking about us, we are definitely thinking about ourselves, Mexico is constantly thinking about us, and so are all the countries that make our {censored} in Asia, India and even Africa. We have our hands in a lot of things right now, more than any other country in the world.

True... But just because one has the power to do something is not a reason to do it. I wonder whether the White House and Downing Street really knew in advance that there were no WMDs in Iraq... Still, until the appropriate intelligence files are de-classified, I don't suppose we'll ever know.

 

 

I don't mean America is popular like a beloved Monty Python dressed in drag, it's popular by force, coersion and economy.

 

 

Indeed, but America has the power while we still live in a uni-polar world to do good, and I just wish it would do so rather than just pissing off the whole world. It's become painfully clear that America's grip on the world is waning, and that other 'super' powers are going to emerge, though perhaps not the EU because even if it is economically competitive with the USA, it cannot compete on many other grounds.

 

Also Azurael, and serioulsy no offense because I like responding to your comment, you should write more next time, I wasn't quite sure what you meant...

Don't worry, I take no offense! I am a big fan of philosophical debate on such issues.

[LifeDroidGenesis7007]

Nice Az. Everything except the US involvement in the war, I must respectfully disagree. The point is that if we hadn't fought Japan all around the Pacific, the Nazis in France, Germany and many other countries, and if we hadn't sent pilots and planes over to England while it was getting bombed EVERYDAY the Nazis would have won. We also helped rebuild Europe and that is no small task, we spent a lot of money on that. Unfortunately is directly after the war that the US started on it's present day course, but we American's, like every other country, have to feel good about something we've done. Laying down the lives of our citizens to defend the morality of the world was a great act, and we helped an incalculable amount. Not to say that other countries didn't fight because they all did, we just didn't actually live anywhere near the problems.

We're fuked up now, and I only respect the history of my country because these days we are harming more than helping. We didn't single handidly win the war for a war-torn world, we just made sure the good, the right side didn't lose.

[gwprod12]

I guess it's good to hear that the United States shouldn't have bothered interfering in a purely European war. Especially considering Europe had the Nazis and Fascist Italy firmly in hand. Just waiting for the right moment to totally obliterate Hitler, as it were. If only us pesky americans hadn't insisted on playing too, the British, French and Soviets could have had all the glory. In fact, lend-lease only detracted from the starving Briton's stiff upper lip. So inconsiderate of us. I feel the shame.

[LifeDroidGenesis7007]

USA! USA! USA! :censored2:

[killbot1000]

USA! USA! USA!

 

 

ewwwwwwwwwww