InsanelyMac is for sale

[my1stmacisaHACK]

if somebody buy the site i hope you'll buy it back after your masters (in a year right?)

 

 

thanks for everything and good luck....

 

 

ikki swad.... gambatte!!

 

keep rocking

[non sequitur]

i live in chicago too, great city

 

mash/swad/jason, i have to say this community has affected my love of computers, for i have learned so much over the past two years of OS X and of computers in general. thanks for providing us with such a good community.

[Swad]

I have this crazy idea. To have this site going on in the best interest of the community. Why don't we all put up some bucks in donation and buy the right to the sites. Then we elected a governing body to do an administration work. There will be openly voted the people in the community and there will be a fixed terms for the admin team.

While this is in theory a good idea, I'm really don't believe that it's feasible. When you think about all the open source projects that have split, all the oligarchies (government rule by a few) that have fallen, you begin to see a pattern - an elected governing body should have a role, but it's important to have a single figure at the top who is accountable to all. The American Framers realized this in establishing a singular executive (check out The Federalist Papers for a better understanding of what I'm saying).

[Alessandro17]

this isn't exciting at all , anyway we'll see , if it's just a matter of making money it will be quickly boycotted by anyone that matters and it will quickly die and a new board will show up. Don't forget that isn't the moderator but people that post interesting stuff that really matters.

 

I have to agree, to some extent. Look at what you, JaS and bofors have done for this site (bofors=best hardware threads).

What have you got in return? You probably nothing. JaS got a Mac Pro from the community, but that is still nothing when compared to his continued support. And bofors? We all know what happened.

[G5rocks]

First, all the times I've been to Europe, I've never been under the impression that they shoot those who sell what they've purchased and grown. You'd have a lot of dead farmers if that were the case...

 

I'll be the first to admit that almost all of the content here is user generated (sans the News, of course). But I'm not making money on the backs of anyone who has posted here or the community writ large. I don't like to talk about the site in business terms, but I will for this post to help you see my point. This site was started to let people have a place to talk. That's it. There's always been a tacit agreement amongst members that if they liked it better somewhere else, or thought they could do better at running a forum, they were able to go elsewhere. It's a totally voluntary process.

 

As a result of the hours I've spent making sure the lights stayed on, that flamewars don't lead people to tear each other apart, and that we actually have a central place to discuss the things that are important to us - for all those hours, I think I'm entitled to receive money for the things I payed for initially. It's not greed - it's the way the world works. If you buy something, put blood, sweat, and tears into it (ok, only the middle one here), you're entitled to reap whatever rewards someone else is willing to give you for it.

 

Nobody would have ever posted anything here if you would have shown your commercial interests before. This is a kind of fraud. Anyone can open forums and wikis. I also have wikis running for free on my servers and i work a lot for it - but this is just what thousands of others also do. If you want money for this then you are a traitor on not only this community which grow on this place, you are then a traitor on all honary working people. Esp. because P I R A T I N G is why this site exists, this pirating is as long not a morally problem when it is just for fun, most osx86 users are mac users doing this for fun and others do it to test OS X, this is not commercial pirating - but NOW you want much more money than a simple expense allowance. This makes it HIGHLY IMMORALLY. What would you do if someone who also worked a lot for this would host your whole user created content tomorrow on a server in russia? Then you would cry and talk about morale.

[Swad]

Nobody would have ever posted anything here if you would have shown your commercial interests before. This is a kind of fraud.

I do not, and never have had, commercial interests at the heart of my running this forum. If I had, you would have seen 10x more ads and other money generating programs. The reason you haven't seen those is because money has not been my priority - the community has.

 

If you want money for this then you are a traitor on not only this community which grow on this place, you are then a traitor on all honary working people.

What? How is it wrong to see if anyone wants to buy what I rightfully purchased - ie, the server space, the domains, etc. Did you expect me to just pay for those without any compensation?

 

Esp. because P I R A T I N G is why this site exists, this pirating is as long not a morally problem when it is just for fun, most osx86 users are mac users doing this for fun and others do it to test OS X, this is not commercial pirating - but NOW you want much more money than a simple expense allowance.

First, pirating is not the reason for this site's continued existence. Second, I would argue that pirating is immoral whenever you do it (even if I've been guilty of it). Third, I'm not profiting from pirating! If I wanted to do that, I'd be selling ripped DVDs on the street! I'm profiting from an investment - a domain name that was purchased cheaply and can be sold for considerably more. There's nothing immoral in that. Period.

[Mebster]

Honestly, who else should be held accountable for what it has grown into?

 

At AcePlayer: C'mon, it's a community for a reason. Do you expect anybody to start handing out money to community members? I don't see any other way he could pay back what he "owes."

I'm not really sure what you're saying here but i'm not against him making some money from what he has helped create. And itt don't even really matter to me if it's going to be a lot or little. All i'm saying is we should only prais someone for what he has actually done. Swad has done a lot for the site and we all agnolodge that but lets not start saying he's done it all (he himself doesn't believe so). So comments like "you don't owe anybody anything, we owe you" isn't really true. We owe each other a lot. And remember the ones that really made it all happen are jas, myzar and the rest. Let me just make it clear selling is his choice and his right. That's cool.

 

But we are all accountable for the growth of the site. I'm not saying we all get paid but we are. If we all disapeared today (like a few already ahve) then this site would mean nothing and wourl make nothing. We (including Swad) are what makes it happen. Swad helps inormously but it boils down to the community. I'm a community person. So I don't like to see my community believing someone which isn't exactly true. I just wanted to clear it up.

 

You guys are kill'n me

Sorry if i made a big deal out of it but I don't want you to include me when you say 'we'. I owe swad i know. But that comes from me in how i see fit.

 

1. My cut isn't as large as you'd think. By the time you add server costs, taxes, payment for new site work, purchasing of other sites (twinmac.com and onmac.net), staff bonuses, site promotions, etc... there's still some left, but it's not the whole amount. The bulk of the extra goes to things that indirectly benefit the site, like the purchase of a MacBook and iMac that allow me to actually try things out before I post about them. There's not enough money earned for that to be the main motivation for running this website. The reason I'm here - that I started it and have continued to love hanging out here - is because of the people and discussion, not the money.

 

2. You're exactly right. A forum like this is a symbiotic relationship - I keep the forum running for all of us to share the information, you all share enough information so that 1) this place doesn't get boring and 2) so that it makes generates enough ad revenue to cover costs and perhaps a little bit extra. When you think about it, that's how every community - city or forum - works in general.

Swad I have no real idea of how much is left over but all I was trying to saw is that there is a small profit made. My point was basically we all depend on one another. That was really it. I meant no disrespect.

[bwhsh8r]

Nobody would have ever posted anything here if you would have shown your commercial interests before. This is a kind of fraud. Anyone can open forums and wikis. I also have wikis running for free on my servers and i work a lot for it - but this is just what thousands of others also do. If you want money for this then you are a traitor on not only this community which grow on this place, you are then a traitor on all honary working people. Esp. because P I R A T I N G is why this site exists, this pirating is as long not a morally problem when it is just for fun, most osx86 users are mac users doing this for fun and others do it to test OS X, this is not commercial pirating - but NOW you want much more money than a simple expense allowance. This makes it HIGHLY IMMORALLY. What would you do if someone who also worked a lot for this would host your whole user created content tomorrow on a server in russia? Then you would cry and talk about morale.

 

 

argreed to some extent, i wouldnt have posted if it was going to be like that, because if i wanted to do that i would a) like to have known it ahead of time

B ) been making some $ myself

c) i would have become a freaking techsupport person getting payed for it

 

but i dont.....

 

20 stacks??????

 

and @ Ace Player, i agree totally with that, because the community would be nothing without a community

 

and swad, i hope what i heard isnt true, i really do.... but if it is im out. but until i can get some sort of proof or telling info im not doing anything too drastik.

[Swad]

bwhsh8r and others -

 

1. This site is nothing without the community. I have never claimed to be the only reason we're still here. As the owner and the administrator, though, I do feel like I have the right to sell the things that belong to me.

 

and swad, i hope what i heard isnt true, i really do....

2. I'm not sure what you've heard, but let me repeat this - I am not and have not been the leader of InsanelyMac to make money. First, there's not enough to made to have to put up with all the drama that you may or may not see. Secondly, it I had been in it for money, there would be no end to the ads you'd see. Popups, those stupid little IntelliText things that I hate, etc. I haven't put those in place because money hasn't been the most important thing.

 

Just because I'm making money on the site now does not mean that it's been my sole purpose. It hasn't been. I hope you all can see that.

[kevin_4e]

Yes, you're right Ace, a community is based upon a community. No more no less.

 

If you want money for this then you are a traitor on not only this community which grow on this place, you are then a traitor on all honary working people.

I'm pretty sure whatever people have put into this community never expected to get anything out of it.

[Envying]

Congratulations to Swad, but feel sad to hear that. I have learned a lot from this site. This is one of my most favorite site in this cyber space... Hopefully everything goes better and better!

 

Cheers!

[bwhsh8r]

bwhsh8r and others -

 

1. This site is nothing without the community. I have never claimed to be the only reason we're still here. As the owner and the administrator, though, I do feel like I have the right to sell the things that belong to me.

 

2. I'm not sure what you've heard, but let me repeat this - I am not and have not been the leader of InsanelyMac to make money. First, there's not enough to made to have to put up with all the drama that you may or may not see. Secondly, it I had been in it for money, there would be no end to the ads you'd see. Popups, those stupid little IntelliText things that I hate, etc. I haven't put those in place because money hasn't been the most important thing.

 

Just because I'm making money on the site now does not mean that it's been my sole purpose. It hasn't been. I hope you all can see that.

you know what, ive been thinking about this, and swad please respond to this along with anyone else,

 

why should we be ripping at your throat and whatnot, have you ever betrayed us? seriously, why should we have any reasion to doubt you..... i mean, you havnt done us wrong so far, so why should we doubt you now?

 

although i did hear from a good source that your intent the whole time was $ (and i know youd never publicially post that, because it would sound like {censored}.... and wed all leave....)

 

but, ill just be on the fence with this because i trust BOTH parties in this and im not sure what to beleve, and its never good to do anything drastic when confused, so ill stick with insanelymac.... it hasnt done me wrong so far.... but ill stay skeptical.

[Swad]

although i did hear from a good source that your intent the whole time was $ (and i know youd never publicially post that, because it would sound like {censored}.... and wed all leave....)

 

but, ill just be on the fence with this because i trust BOTH parties in this and im not sure what to beleve, and its never good to do anything drastic when confused, so ill stick with insanelymac.... it hasnt done me wrong so far.... but ill stay skeptical.

I've found skepticism to generally be a safe route to follow.

 

I'm not sure who you heard that from, and even though you'd expect me to deny it, I can tell you it's not true.

 

Here's what I'm learning - any time that anyone in a group makes money, it will always make others in the group jealous. That's the way it goes. And as I mention before, if money had been that important to me, this site would me mostly ads... oh and with a little bit of content thrown in. We've all seen sites like that - that's not where my heart is. Plus, if the dollar was so important to me, there are a lot better ways to make money than this.

 

My passion is the community. If we made money, so be it. If not, I'd do what I could to make sure things kept going. You all have seen this over the course of our time together and I'd ask you to remember it now.

[bwhsh8r]

I've found skepticism to generally be a safe route to follow.

 

I'm not sure who you heard that from, and even though you'd expect me to deny it, I can tell you it's not true.

 

Here's what I'm learning - any time that anyone in a group makes money, it will always make others in the group jealous. That's the way it goes. And as I mention before, if money had been that important to me, this site would me mostly ads... oh and with a little bit of content thrown in. We've all seen sites like that - that's not where my heart is. Plus, if the dollar was so important to me, there are a lot better ways to make money than this.

 

My passion is the community. If we made money, so be it. If not, I'd do what I could to make sure things kept going. You all have seen this over the course of our time together and I'd ask you to remember it now.

 

 

you do have a point, but i know this person too, and they dont seem jealous or anything, and they arnt leaving the site..... but ill have to wait and see what they say, but thanks for caring what people have to say in this, and i think its a good thing that youll be able to make good ($) out of bad (having to leave, because of another good) if what you say its true

 

goodnight all.

[Alessandro17]

although i did hear from a good source that your intent the whole time was $ (and i know youd never publicially post that, because it would sound like {censored}.... and wed all leave....)

 

Come on, that doesn't make any sense. There is very little advertising here. Without even mentioning really bad sites, from that point of view, just go to OSNews or DistroWatch if you want to find plenty more ads than here.

[Swad]

Or Engadget (or the other Blogsmith sites) as seen here. Yuk.

[AppleLegal]

While this is in theory a good idea, I'm really don't believe that it's feasible. When you think about all the open source projects that have split, all the oligarchies (government rule by a few) that have fallen, you begin to see a pattern - an elected governing body should have a role, but it's important to have a single figure at the top who is accountable to all. The American Framers realized this in establishing a singular executive (check out The Federalist Papers for a better understanding of what I'm saying).

While an interesting read, telling someone on the internet to read the Federalist Papers is like telling them to read Locke's Two Treatises of Government. It makes you sound smart but does nothing useful. Ancient Athens survived and thrived with a pure Democratic government (See Athenian Democracy, minimum of 200 people, sometimes up to 6000 people for all decisions). The Founding Fathers realized they werent always right and left room for change. After all, they wanted the People to elect the House who would then elect the Senate who would then elect the President. Kinda similar to a British Parliamentary i believe.

 

Just cause your a PoliSci major doesnt mean your the only one that can toss around big political words/idea's

[Mebster]

if money had been that important to me, this site would me mostly ads... oh and with a little bit of content thrown in. We've all seen sites like that - that's not where my heart is. Plus, if the dollar was so important to me, there are a lot better ways to make money than this.

I do remember seeing in a post a while back how you like to keep the ads as hidden as possible. You also told us how this was due to the fact that money was not the main priority of this site and i loved it. Those annoying ads are still not around and I thank you for that. Especially those craps the pop out when you hover over a word. Anyway I'm sure a year hasn't changed you so I respected you then and still do now. All I ask is that who ever eventually owns it does a great job.

 

It just worries me how other and sHARD>> left so recently to this coming out. I know the staff disagreed on something and this probably was it. Just wish whatever happens, it happens quick.

[erbic]

I support Swad in whatever he does with this. It takes courage to do something like this; to sell a site like this which you helped to grow from the ground up.

[alloutmacstoday]

I donated money and I'm still glad that I donated

[Swad]

It just worries me how other and sHARD>> left so recently to this coming out. I know the staff disagreed on something and this probably was it. Just wish whatever happens, it happens quick.

 

I was afraid that someone would think it - I know I would if I was on the outside. Their leaving was actually totally unrelated to this... if anything the fact that I've lost two of my best admins due to conflict with other community members makes this an even better time to give the reins to someone else, since a breath of fresh air is what the staff needs.

 

So nope, you can be assured that the staff left for other reasons, long before I realized that now was the right time to sell.

[EBD]

seriously mash, what happened... you used to be cool

[Mebster]

So nope, you can be assured that the staff left for other reasons, long before I realized that now was the right time to sell.

Good to hear.

 

The digg is interesting read. Some obvious true stuff like how I do wish the main guys (jas, myzar, semthex,...) got rewarded more but also some serious way off stuff like:

 

flux1:

"Best of all is constantly begging for donations as if they were days away from being shut down due to not having any funds"

I don't know about anyone else but I've never seen any forum of persuasion being applied here to make us donate. Whoever does does it simply because they randomly want to.

 

EDIT:

EBD, I can see you've been around a while but this is your first post. How do you know anything?

[EBD]

EDIT:

EBD, I can see you've been around a while but this is your first post. How do you know anything?

 

if you must know, im the owner of r-type, the irc network where this place first lived and ive been following it closely ever since.

[Metrogirl]

To all those who say money is the issue, I'd like to lend my voice to support Swad on this. We - the staff - have seen how the money is spent. The site operates at a profit because we couldn't afford to run it at a loss; we wouldn't be here if we did. But the whole business model has been geared only to support the costs and no more; as Swad pointed out we have restricted our advertising and never ventured into the tasteless world of popups and rammed-down-your-throat commercialism that some other sites employ.

 

Believe it or not it costs money to host a site, buy software (has anyone actually bothered to see how much an IPB licence costs?), constantly upgrade severs, pay for bandwidth and maintain things. When you get to our size, you don't just ask some whiz to draw up a logo or write a script, you have to do things properly and that does cost real money. You have legal fees to pay too, and a lawyer never comes cheap. Although the figures look good on paper we cover our costs and not a huge amount more. And please note, with the exception of a small concession to some admin staff who have to be on call to keep the site up and running 24/7, not one of Swad's team has taken a penny from the site. We give our time freely because we love the community and that's how it should be. It's Swad's right to choose a price for his work, but consider this - a realistic price is the best guarantee of dedication from a prospective purchaser. If the site was given away, what incentive would there be for the new owner to make it work? How could we possibly choose from the masses crying "Give it to me! Give it to me!"

 

When Swad told the staff of his plans, my Significant Other and I debated making an offer ourselves. We can't because it's going to be more than we could realistically afford. Besides, neither of us knows the first thing about IPB and we would be stuck - but still responsible - if the site went down. That incidentally is also a big incentive for any new owner to keep the existing staff happy - lose us, and you lose more than the spirit of the site, you lose the working knowledge that keeps it going. We are committed to keeping InsanelyMac here for the community, and Swad will be absolutely certain to choose someone who has everyone's best interests at heart. He'd hate to see it disappear as much as any of us would, if not more so. But at the end of the day, it's his site, it's his intellectual property, and I totally support his right to do with it as he chooses.