deeveedee Posted September 3 Author Share Posted September 3 Does anyone know the purpose of the highlighted connector in the diagram below? It appears to me that this connector is installed only on the 35W motherboard (not the 65W motherboard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robi39 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 I think if you have a flex io USB -C, it connects there also 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 @robi39 Thank you! I'm surprised that 65w G4 Mini motherboards do not have the extra port. Maybe the 35w boards need the extra power connector while the 65w boards do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ird Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 (edited) 4 hours ago, deeveedee said: @robi39 Thank you! I'm surprised that 65w G4 Mini motherboards do not have the extra port. Maybe the 35w boards need the extra power connector while the 65w boards do not. i thought this connector is so that the USBC works in PD mode powering the G4 mini but only enough for 35W CPU versions. I could be wrong. EDIT: see page 11 https://cdn.cs.1worldsync.com/f9/bc/f9bc2202-eaa4-4bde-9047-9b9535ccd7d6.pdf it’s apparently bidirectional, can supply power to external devices as well as provide 60W to the G4 itself. Edited September 4 by ird 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 (edited) @ird Sounds like you're in agreement with robi39. Edited September 4 by deeveedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ird Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, deeveedee said: @ird Sounds like you're in agreement with robi39. Yes indeed. The pdf lists 2 versions of USB C flex io, one with PD and one without. Only the PD version seems to connect to that port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 (edited) I received the Kioxia BG5 and confirmed that it does function perfectly in the 2nd m.2 slot of our EliteDesk 800 G4/G5s. I installed it exactly as I described here. Kioxia BG5 installed in 2nd NVMe m.2 slot Spoiler You'll notice that our EliteDesk 800 G4 motherboard has a threaded post which is correctly placed for a 2230, but the post is too large. I performed some surgery that is not for the faint of heart. I wanted to make sure that the 2230 fastener screw has ground connectivity, so I used a heatgun and solder to partially fill the threaded post. Partially fill 2230 post with solder (sorry about the blurry photo) Spoiler I then placed a correctly sized machine screw in the soldered post and heated the post to melt the solder around the machine screw. I then allowed the solder to cool / harden. Since the solder does not stick to the machine screw, I was able to unscrew the machine screw, leaving a perfectly sized, threaded hole in the post for the smaller machine screw. If you don't want to use a heatgun / solder (I don't blame you), use something conductive like aluminum foil to "shrink" the threaded post hole for the smaller machine screw. Small machine screw in soldered post Spoiler As @ird mentioned previously, the RX 560x backplate does not clear the 2nd m.2 slot, so my next step is to perform a minor modification of the backplate with my Dremel. Stay tuned. If you attempt this modification before I post my finished solution, don't forget to maintain the ground connection between the backplate and the RX 560x board. Incorrectly modifying the backplate could remove one of the electrical connections between the backplate and the RX 560x board ground plane. EDIT: The pre-owned Kioxia BG5 256GB SSD cost me $12 USD. Its performance is very respectable for such a cheap SSD. Spoiler EDIT2: For comparison, here's the speedtest for the WD Black NVMe SSD. Spoiler Edited September 7 by deeveedee fixed typo 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 (edited) The RX 560x backplate surgery worked perfectly. My patient is alive and kicking with two m.2 NVMe SSDs and the RX 560x dGPU. Steps that I performed to modify the backplate are below. Proceed at your own risk. 1. Remove the fan and dGPU board from the backplate, leaving only the bare backplate Spoiler 2. Cutout a rectangular section as shown to create an opening for the m.2 2230 card. I used a Dremel with cutting wheel to make the cuts. Be sure to thoroughly clean all metal filings from the modified backplate before proceeding to step 3. Test fit the backplate in your EliteDesk 800 G4 Mini (just the bare backplate) to make sure that your modification creates a sufficient opening for the m.2 2230 SSD card in m.2 slot 2. I forgot to take a photo of just the modified backplate, so you'll see this photo again. Spoiler 3. Unfortunately, cutting out the rectangular section of the backplate removes a grounding "bump" from the backplate that makes contact with a copper ground pad on the dGPU board, so we'll need to restore the ground connection. Solder a braided wire to the copper ground pad on the dGPU board as shown. I used Chip Quik solder paste and a heatgun. use a 3-inch length of stranded wire so that you can cut it to length later. Flatten the stranded wire before soldering it to the ground pad. Spoiler 4. Place an insulating adhesive label over the exposed circuits / components as shown. Cut a square opening in the label to expose the IC as shown. This is just a precaution to make sure that the modified backplate and the m.2 2230 card don't come into direct electrical contact with the exposed dGPU circuits / components. Spoiler 5. Temporarily affix the dGPU board to the modified backplate and cut the ground wire to size as shown. The ground wire should reach the backplate mounting hole as shown so that the mounting bolt will fasten the grounding wire to the chassis when fully assembled. Spoiler Spoiler 6. Re-assemble the dGPU card, install the 2230 SSD in the second m.2 slot and install the dGPU card. Make sure that the dGPU mounting bolt fastens the grounding wire as shown. Spoiler 7. Cross your fingers or say a prayer (whichever works for you) and power on your hack. If you did everything correctly, your hack should boot normally and you should now have a working RX 560x dGPU with two m.2 NVMe SSDs. This modification does not interfere with installation of the m.2 2230 Wi-Fi / Bluetooth card, so you can install that, too, if you want to. Edited September 7 by deeveedee 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 (edited) My hack is now working perfectly with two m.2 NVMe SSDs and the RX 560x dGPU after following the steps in the previous two posts. I plan to dual-boot Windows and macOS by having Windows on one SSD and macOS on the other. If anyone wants to try an experiment, see if a SATA SSD can be installed "externally" by attaching the SATA SSD ribbon cable to the SATA0 port and dangling the SATA SSD out the back of the EliteDesk 800 Mini chassis. EDIT: See EDIT4 below. EDIT: No surprise, but Windows detects all devices without issues. I dual-boot Windows and macOS (on separate NVMe SSDs) by pressing F9 at start-up (not booting Windows via Open Core). Spoiler EDIT2: I don't plan to wait for this overly crowded hack to start showing signs of thermal stress. Since I'm using a 2230 NVMe SSD in the second m.2 slot, there is room under the RX 560x for a mini fan (just something that moves air to encourage convection cooling). If anyone else develops a cooling solution that fits under the RX 560x, let us know. EDIT3: I installed Windows 10 Pro using HP's Cloud Recovery (Windows 10 Pro is included with the licensing for HP EliteDesk 800 G4 Mini). After installing Windows 10 Pro, I was prompted to upgrade to Windows 11. The installation of Windows couldn't have gone more smoothly. I may have to retract all the bad things I've said about Micro$oft. EDIT4: I performed a quick test with the SATA ribbon cable and found that it is not long enough to extend the SATA connector out of the back of the unit (not to mention interference from the RX 560x dGPU card). I think that adding a SATA drive is going to be more complicated than I thought. Edited September 7 by deeveedee 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliuco Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 @deeveedee Wow! Good work! Excellent electronic DIY. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 7 Author Share Posted September 7 @miliuco Thanks! I'm thrilled that this hack is the gift that keeps on giving. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ird Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 On 9/6/2024 at 11:18 AM, deeveedee said: My hack is now working perfectly with two m.2 NVMe SSDs and the RX 560x dGPU after following the steps in the previous two posts. I plan to dual-boot Windows and macOS by having Windows on one SSD and macOS on the other. If anyone wants to try an experiment, see if a SATA SSD can be installed "externally" by attaching the SATA SSD ribbon cable to the SATA0 port and dangling the SATA SSD out the back of the EliteDesk 800 Mini chassis. EDIT: See EDIT4 below. EDIT: No surprise, but Windows detects all devices without issues. I dual-boot Windows and macOS (on separate NVMe SSDs) by pressing F9 at start-up (not booting Windows via Open Core). Reveal hidden contents EDIT2: I don't plan to wait for this overly crowded hack to start showing signs of thermal stress. Since I'm using a 2230 NVMe SSD in the second m.2 slot, there is room under the RX 560x for a mini fan (just something that moves air to encourage convection cooling). If anyone else develops a cooling solution that fits under the RX 560x, let us know. EDIT3: I installed Windows 10 Pro using HP's Cloud Recovery (Windows 10 Pro is included with the licensing for HP EliteDesk 800 G4 Mini). After installing Windows 10 Pro, I was prompted to upgrade to Windows 11. The installation of Windows couldn't have gone more smoothly. I may have to retract all the bad things I've said about Micro$oft. EDIT4: I performed a quick test with the SATA ribbon cable and found that it is not long enough to extend the SATA connector out of the back of the unit (not to mention interference from the RX 560x dGPU card). I think that adding a SATA drive is going to be more complicated than I thought. This is great. Almost utilizing the G4 to its "fullest potential"! Curious on the fan comment, are there any free 5/12V pins to tap for the fan header on the motherboard? I haven't looked deeply on the motherboard schematic. As for SATA, if external mounting is not an issue, you can buy extension cables like these: 15+7 Pin SATA HDD Extension Cable Data & Power Male to Female | eBay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 7 Author Share Posted September 7 (edited) @ird I was planning to splice another fan onto the existing RX 560x fan connector. I doubt the two fans would exceed current limits. Since the male connector of your proposed extension would need to remain within the confines of the chassis, it might be difficult to find space for the connector with the EliteDesk 800 G4 Mini's cover in place. I was hoping to find a solution for SATA that permitted operation with the cover installed (hoping that the thin ribbon cable could extend out of the back of the unit through the seam between the cover and the chassis), but your solution is definitely worth investigating. See EDIT2 and EDIT3 below. EDIT: Windows 11 Pro shows NVMe Drive health in Settings > Storage Settings > Advanced Storage Settings > Disks & Volumes > Properties Kioxia Drive Health (Kioxia is my Windows drive) Spoiler Western Digital Drive Health (WD is my macOS drive) Spoiler The Kioxia SSD which is installed in the 2nd m.2 slot is hotter than the WD drive in the 1st m.2 slot (no surprise, since the Kioxia SSD is my Windows drive (currently in Windows while posting this) and the macOS drive is dormant). I haven't run Windows before on this hack and I'm just discovering that there is a firmware update for my WD SSD. I'll need to create Time Machine backups of my macOS Volumes before applying the firmware update in Windows. EDIT: According to Kioxia, the operating temp range for the BG5 m.2 2230 SSD is Controller: 0 ℃ to 95 ℃ Other Components: 0 ℃ to 85 ℃ EDIT2: @ird I'd prefer something like this for the SATA cable. This cable/connector for ThinkPad E480 E485 R480 E490 just might work (it looks longer than the HP equivalent). I'll let someone else experiment and find a solution. Spoiler EDIT3: This HP cable/connector might be even better Spoiler EDIT4: The WD Firmware update applied (in Windows) to my WD NVMe SSD without issues. The firmware update did not corrupt macOS which still boots / runs fine. Edited September 7 by deeveedee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ird Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 6 hours ago, deeveedee said: @ird I was planning to splice another fan onto the existing RX 560x fan connector. I doubt the two fans would exceed current limits. Since the male connector of your proposed extension would need to remain within the confines of the chassis, it might be difficult to find space for the connector with the EliteDesk 800 G4 Mini's cover in place. I was hoping to find a solution for SATA that permitted operation with the cover installed (hoping that the thin ribbon cable could extend out of the back of the unit through the seam between the cover and the chassis), but your solution is definitely worth investigating. See EDIT2 and EDIT3 below. EDIT: Windows 11 Pro shows NVMe Drive health in Settings > Storage Settings > Advanced Storage Settings > Disks & Volumes > Properties Kioxia Drive Health (Kioxia is my Windows drive) Reveal hidden contents Western Digital Drive Health (WD is my macOS drive) Reveal hidden contents The Kioxia SSD which is installed in the 2nd m.2 slot is hotter than the WD drive in the 1st m.2 slot (no surprise, since the Kioxia SSD is my Windows drive (currently in Windows while posting this) and the macOS drive is dormant). I haven't run Windows before on this hack and I'm just discovering that there is a firmware update for my WD SSD. I'll need to create Time Machine backups of my macOS Volumes before applying the firmware update in Windows. EDIT: According to Kioxia, the operating temp range for the BG5 m.2 2230 SSD is Controller: 0 ℃ to 95 ℃ Other Components: 0 ℃ to 85 ℃ EDIT2: @ird I'd prefer something like this for the SATA cable. This cable/connector for ThinkPad E480 E485 R480 E490 just might work (it looks longer than the HP equivalent). I'll let someone else experiment and find a solution. Reveal hidden contents EDIT3: This HP cable/connector might be even better Reveal hidden contents EDIT4: The WD Firmware update applied (in Windows) to my WD NVMe SSD without issues. The firmware update did not corrupt macOS which still boots / runs fine. Yes, the HP flat ribbon extension looks to be much better. Though, personally, I'd be wary of ripping the fragile ribbon if let through the base-cover seam. I'd rather try to pull it through the Kensington lock hole if possible. 51/52C for NVMe is actually pretty decent with pretty much no airflow in there. Not bad at all. You could try to put thermal pads on the NVMe so that the metal backplate of the GPU can act as a heatsink, in case there is any possibility of slight contact with the pad on. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 8 Author Share Posted September 8 (edited) @ird the lock hole is a good suggestion - definitely worth considering. I won't be pursuing a "permanent" SATA solution, so hopefully someone else feels up to the challenge and can contribute their findings. It is the NVMe SSD in m.2 slot 2 (closest to the CPU) that concerns me (not m.2 slot 1) and there's no longer backplate above that slot for the 2230 card, so I'm going to investigate the addition of a small, low-profile fan. The HP SATA drive caddy fan might work, but I'll need to experiment. The Windows experience continues to be very fun on this Mini. I had forgotten how much installing and configuring Windows is like driving stick (now showing my age) - I've needed to manually update drivers (including the latest Win11 AMD Radeon RX 560x drivers which are not up-to-date on the HP support site). So much different than the macOS experience where drivers are included with OS updates. This hack with AMD Radeon graphics is now in my top-two most rewarding hacks (the other being my Dell Latitude E6410). EDIT: The Kioxia BG5 firmware updates are available from Lenovo and Dell. I ran the Dell firmware update utility for Kioxia BG5 NVMe SSD and the utility determined that my BG5 was already running the latest firrmware. EDIT2: Because of the way I installed Windows 11 Pro (first installed Windows 10 Pro using HP Cloud Recovery and then upgraded), there are about 30GB of temporary files left-over from the old Windows installation. Remove them by navigating to Storage > Temporary Files. Check the box for "Previous version of Windows" and then click Remove. Edited September 8 by deeveedee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 8 Author Share Posted September 8 (edited) This might just be the best thing about running Windows 11 on this hack with RX 560x. I just installed Half-Life 2! Updating now... Steam - Updating on Windows 11 Spoiler EDIT: It has been so long since I used my Steam account, that it went dormant and needed to be recovered. The recovery process was painful, as I answered identity questions over multiple iterations with Steam tech support until they finally required me to send them a photo of my original HL2 CD #1 jacket with license key. That was the ticket to getting my Steam account restored (and my ability to run HL2 in Win11). @CloverLeaf My HL2 graphics are running at the full native 1680x1050 resolution of my display and HL2 runs perfectly - just as you said! Also, HL2 always launches / displays (in full-screen mode) on my RX 560x-connected display (not on the UHD 630-connected displays). Edited September 10 by deeveedee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloverLeaf Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 @deeveedee You will be surprised how well most of the games run at 1080p medium settings. I really enjoy my G5 Mini with i7-9700T + RX560x + 32GB Ram. GPU never exceeds 62'C and the CPU is 74' when gaming/benchmarking. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 (edited) Upgrade to Sequoia 15.0 RC was flawless. Temps for both NVMe SSDs continue to be well within recommended operating ranges. While I will continue to think about the addition of a small cooling fan for m.2 slot 2, it is a low priority for me. Edited September 9 by deeveedee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 This hack just works and does everything I throw at it for both macOS and Windows. With no new challenges to tackle for this hack, I needed a new challenge, so I ordered a SATA connector with what appears to be a much longer ribbon cable than the stock EliteDesk Mini SATA cable (the one I ordered is intended for an HP laptop and appears to have the same ribbon cable width (hopefully the same connector pin-out)). I'll test and report my findings. If this ribbon cable / SATA connector works, then there would be no storage limitations with the RX 560x. This hack would support two NVMe SSDs, one SATA HD/SSD AND the RX 560x. I'll follow-up with details after I test the SATA connector. I like @ird's suggestion to route the SATA ribbon cable through the lock hole and will attempt that after testing and confirming functionality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ird Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 1 hour ago, deeveedee said: This hack just works and does everything I throw at it for both macOS and Windows. With no new challenges to tackle for this hack, I needed a new challenge, so I ordered a SATA connector with what appears to be a much longer ribbon cable than the stock EliteDesk Mini SATA cable (the one I ordered is intended for an HP laptop and appears to have the same ribbon cable width (hopefully the same connector pin-out)). I'll test and report my findings. If this ribbon cable / SATA connector works, then there would be no storage limitations with the RX 560x. This hack would support two NVMe SSDs, one SATA HD/SSD AND the RX 560x. I'll follow-up with details after I test the SATA connector. I like @ird's suggestion to route the SATA ribbon cable through the lock hole and will attempt that after testing and confirming functionality. Sounds exciting! If you are looking for more challenges, then there's the long pending powerplay tables for RX560X. I haven't been able to get to that. I think there's quite some juice left to undervolt the GPU to reduce idle and load power consumption as well as have it overclock at a lower voltage overall (room to go in both directions). This probably needs a good chunk of dedicated time to experiment that I haven't been able to spend... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 @ird I'll probably be leaving those experiments to others more experienced with Radeon performance tweaks (like you). And hopefully this thread attracts others who now realize that there is finally a working macOS solution for this hack. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 Sonoma 14.7 upgrade applied without any issues. This hack is working perfectly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 Upgrade from Sequoia 15.0 RC to Sequoia 15.1 Beta 4 proceeded without issues. It appears that Sequoia 15.1 Beta 4 has resolved the Ethernet connectivity issue that I was observing with Microsoft Remote Desktop (reported in Known Issues). Details here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveedee Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 I haven't given up on figuring out how to use an i7-8700 with our hacks, but I have determined that soldering a dGPU connector onto a 65W motherboard is beyond my amateur capabilities. The dGPU pins are far too close together for me to risk the possibility of shorted connections. If anyone is still looking at this, I think the best possibility of using an i7-8700 is to figure out why the 35W motherboard does not POST after installing the missing MOSFETs and inductor choke coil. As my previous testing shows, the 35W board does not reliably power the i7-8700. I think this is the only remaining technical hurdle for this amazingly capable little hack. And even when powered with "only" the i5-8600 and 230W power supply, performance is quite impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Revenger1 Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 (edited) On 8/30/2024 at 1:48 PM, datafeedexpert said: I Just want to Learn Modifying original USB Tables. The advantage of using ACPI USB port mapping method. 1 - Kextless 2- USB ports are defined at the ACPI level and is unlikely to break because of future macOS updates 3 - Will work on any SMBIOS 4 - Does not affect other types of operating systems I think the likelihood of USB Maps breaking between OS updates is pretty low - they haven't changed really since the port limit was introduced all the way back in like El Capitan if I'm remembering right? An ACPI USB map is also more likely to effect other OSes compared to a kext, although I haven't really seen anything go wrong with an ACPI USB map so it probably doesn't really matter either way. USBToolbox avoids having SMBIOS specific USB maps which is really the main downside to the normal USBMaps.kext in my opinion. USBToolBox is the option I use nowadays just because it's really nice being able to map in Windows and not have to deal with the 15 port limit in macOS. Unless you get really lucky and have a valid USB map in ACPI already, as was the case on my Chromebook running custom firmware. ACPI mapping is a little weird because it is a fallback method done by the USB controller kexts, and the built-in USB maps for actual macintoshes overrides ACPI unless the controller names are different. Sorry, this post ended up being more rambling/info. I'm not entirely sure where I was going with this post haha. Edited September 18 by 1Revenger1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts