Opencore vs Clover

[RichieKotzen]

I'm a little rusty lately.

But is it true that the latest versions of clover are the carbon copy of opencore?

 

thanks

Edited January 4, 2021 by RichieKotzen

[Slice]

There is Clover documentation in English

https://drovosek01.github.io/CloverHackyColor-WebVersion/

There are some instructions

https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/282787-clover-v2-instructions/

 

[BuXb]

Also a good one and last time edited 2020-10: GUIDE: Creating a basic Clover config.plist for booting macOS on Intel Desktops

 

 

[iCanaro]

18 minutes ago, 5T33Z0 said:

But these feel more like copy pastes from the dortania guide.

ah yes, the dortania guides were online as early as 2018??? Question

I must have missed a lot of things in the last 12 years... today it seems that first came the "guides" dortaniae then the rest of the world hack

[iCanaro]

it is obvious that the dortania guide being more recent, more kept up with the news, is now preferable; but the way you wrote, it looked like in 2018 they had copied and pasted from the dortania guide, when it had not yet been written.

[BuXb]

@iCanaro recommendation: watch Back to the Future, and search for Time Travel on gaia.tv ..

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by BuXb

[BuXb]

On 1/21/2021 at 6:57 PM, Slice said:

There is Clover documentation in English

https://drovosek01.github.io/CloverHackyColor-WebVersion/

It is really well written, + with a lot of humor - fun to read  !

 

More recent, though: https://github.com/5T33Z0/Clover-Crate (still being updated as of 2022-02)

 

@5T33Z0 agreed, & thanks for your efforts!

Edited March 1, 2022 by BuXb
update

[illdev]

On 1/15/2021 at 12:08 AM, 5T33Z0 said:

Like TGT bridge which is really useful on Laptops and a lot of other features where you just have to tick one box whereas in OpenCore, you have to create an SSDT for it.

 

The whole reason why I love Clover so much, is that it requires no SSDT like we had them back in the PC_EFI or Chameleon eras.

Why did you go back? Why back to worse solutions? I don't get it. Stop hyping OpenCore, it is obviously garbage, bringing us back to Chameleon and PC_EFI dark ages.

Sad!

 

With Clover all I need is 1 XML file and FakeSMC.kext. That's literally it, since 10.10. So rock stable, you wouldn't believe it even if I told you.

 

What would I need with OpenCore? An SSDT? And XML? And new kexts? And this and that? Why!? For what purpose? That's just sad to read, man.

I'm just sayin'.

[BuXb]

One of the main reasons accdg. to the Acidanthera and Dortania teams from what I understand: security incl. secure boot as close to Apple as possible. All of their reasonings you can read at Why OpenCore over Clover and others. I'm just neutrally posting the link, that's all.

[Aluveitie]

@illdev I rather write an SSDT and know exactly what is going on than checking a box that magically does something, which may break at any time without me knowing how to fix it.

[Guest 5T33Z0]

First of all, the idea that you can create any Hackintosh with "just an XML" and "FakeSMC"  is simply not rue - rather for Clover nor for OpenCore. Everybody who has ever tried to create a Hackintosh from a Laptop knows this! It's fake news.

 

As far as the rest is concerned: Clover has collected a lot of patches and fixes over the last decade.  While this is normal in term of progress of software development, Clover Configurator makes it look  as if all the available patches and fixes are still applicable today - this is not the case. Sure you can enable them and they add code snippets to the DSDT during boot, but they won't work on most modern systems and macOS versions.

 

For example, although the ACPI Section contains a lot of fixes issues where you otherwise would need a SSDT, it doesn't mean that they are still applicable today. On modern systems there a re only a few cases/combinations where you can click a box and don't need an SSDT in my experience . Some of these settings for PCs include

 

- FixHPET, FixIPIC, FixTMR and FixRTC (instead of having to use an SSDT-HPET and ACPI Patches if on-board sound is not working)

- AddMCHC, FixSUBS (instead of having to use SSDT-SBUS-MCHC)

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by 5T33Z0

[BuXb]

my Clover and OC EFIs have the exact same # of SSDTs and ACPI hotpatches..

[makk]

Clover is completely configurable and can be customized to your liking and needs. Build your own.

Clover finds Windows and does it without any messing around.

Could use better themes though. LLOLL j/k.  

It is faster on boot up.  And it places things properly so when you are in Desktop mode don't get twitches.

HiDPI works smoothly whereas in OC had crashes. 

Feels much better and it has been around quite a bit longer and has much years of development.

Dual booting is simpler and less time consuming.  

 

With OC could not get Windows to work inside the bootloader. 

Cannot boot Windows for the life of one's wife.  Experience says quite a bit.

 

[Intel6600]

On 1/4/2021 at 10:00 AM, RichieKotzen said:

But is it true that the latest versions of clover are the carbon copy of opencore?

 

Yes. 

 

On 3/17/2022 at 5:07 AM, makk said:

Feels much better and it has been around quite a bit longer and has much years of development.

 

Another word for old Code... Just new Code added to get it working again... 

On 3/1/2022 at 5:58 PM, illdev said:

Stop hyping OpenCore, it is obviously garbage, bringing us back to Chameleon and PC_EFI dark ages.

But the "garbage" is good if integrated in Clover?! Interesting... 

 

[Slice]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:37 PM, Intel6600 said:

Yes. 

 

 

No

[Guest 5T33Z0]

On 3/17/2022 at 5:07 AM, makk said:

Clover is completely configurable and can be customized to your liking and needs. Build your own.

Clover finds Windows and does it without any messing around.

Could use better themes though. LLOLL j/k.  

It is faster on boot up.  And it places things properly so when you are in Desktop mode don't get twitches.

HiDPI works smoothly whereas in OC had crashes. 

Feels much better and it has been around quite a bit longer and has much years of development.

Dual booting is simpler and less time consuming.  

 

With OC could not get Windows to work inside the bootloader. 

Cannot boot Windows for the life of one's wife.  Experience says quite a bit.

 

 

• What do you mean by "completely configurable"?
• OpenCore finds it too, so? And by "it" I am referring to the "Microsoft" folder inside of the EFI partition which contains the Microsoft Boot Manager
• As far as dual booting is concerned: When I use Clover to Boot Windows on my PC which does not have a boot order lock option in the BIOS, Windows Boot Manager takes over the system afterwards. So next reboot takes me straight to Windows. And that's not good.
• If you cannot boot Windows from using OpenCore, your custom ACPI tables most likely don't contain the" If OSI Darwin" switch so the table gets only applied to macOS. That's the #1 reason for Windows not starting under OpenCore. I have a Notebook runinng on OpenCore which requires 16 SSDT's to run and I can boot WIndows from within OpenCore without any issues. Took me a lot of time though to perfect it.

Edited March 20, 2022 by 5T33Z0

[makk]

13 hours ago, 5T33Z0 said:

 

• What do you mean by "completely configurable"?
• OpenCore finds it too, so? And by "it" I am referring to the "Microsoft" folder inside of the EFI partition which contains the Microsoft Boot Manager
• As far as dual booting is concerned: When I use Clover to Boot Windows on my PC which does not have a boot order lock option in the BIOS, Windows Boot Manager takes over the system afterwards. So next reboot takes me straight to Windows. And that's not good.
• If you cannot boot Windows from using OpenCore, your custom ACPI tables most likely don't contain the" If OSI Darwin" switch so the table gets only applied to macOS. That's the #1 reason for Windows not starting under OpenCore. I have a Notebook runinng on OpenCore which requires 16 SSDT's to run and I can boot WIndows from within OpenCore without any issues. Took me a lot of time though to perfect it.

@5T33Z0

 

Thank you.

 

No and no.

 

OSI is stated and patched.

 

The problem was the 'I don't know why'

 

Absolutley no boot of Windows followed and tried 5 different shades of blue.

Just no luck.

 

Then when using  Clover, not a single issue. Boots straight in.

It depends on the hardware bios, and some research. But it gets too much to bare after awhile, want simplicity.

 

Like some people have absolutely no problems booting Windows in OC.

While others do. For some reason most likely connected to the mismatch going on in the Disk tables the first sector.

Unless you have seeing eye spy first sector of the boot and can change that on the fly, then well that's cool.

 

But for this rig, this hardware, Clover boots all things without making any changes in the Bootloader. 

Hard to explain it but that's the  way it is.

 

I'm sure Slice, vit9696 and the reast have a legitimate answer.

 

Your words above:

• As far as dual booting is concerned: When I use Clover to Boot Windows on my PC which does not have a boot order lock option in the BIOS, Windows Boot Manager takes over the system afterwards. So next reboot takes me straight to Windows. And that's not good.

Theres a fix for that.

 

Follow Kushwavez's dual boot windows macos to the letter. It works.

 

So for the EFI of Windows, Micro-- NO NAME. letter of B. Do not assign it a name. Omit this part.

So what you do after the build of Windows and all that,

you pop in to Diskpart, via command prompt Administrator Privilege;

List Disk, Sel Disk x

sel the volume for EFI of Micro--

delete vol override --zap gone.

create partition efi size=200

format quick fs=fat32 

assign letter=B

check your work

list vol

list part

exit

 

at the command prompt

bcdboot C:\Windows /s B:

 

next:

 

bcdedit /set {bootmgr} path \EFI\CLOVER\COVERX64.EFI

 

exit

reboot.

 

Then you should not have if all went well, Windows not take over the entire boot process.

 

Read up on his tried and true methods. Not every hardware and BIO is the same.

I'm using a Laptop. Much more pain in the arse then a Desktop.

 

Good luck and thanks!

 

[makk]

@5T33Z0

 

here's my diskutil list screen shot

 

as you view this, there is

disk0s3 > EFI NO NAME 209.7MB

disk0s4> Microsoft Basic Data Window

 

No auto reboot into Windows.  It always boots back to Clover Boot Menu.

And I installed Windows outside of Clover. Not inside on the menu selection.

F9 boot menu Bios and installed.

 

With OC I had done backflips, acrobatics, swam across the ocean and ran around the world

and no boot from inside OC. Always had to us F9 to select via Bios. 

 

 

[makk]

@5T33Z0

 

For the install since my installer doesn't allow to select which flavor windows at the Install process, I had to perform

a manual install of Windows to select Windows 10 Pro. which is adds to the complications of the configuration for some reason.

 

So a manual install creates a problem with OC.  

But you get to choose so this is important which flavor of windows the backside way.

 

I omitted, msr which is a waste of space.  Microsoft Reserve.

 

Windows creates EFI, MSR, and Windows partitions. and I think one more?

 

Any way I only have EFI and Windows Partitions. Two.

[1Revenger1]

OpenCore redirects NVRAM calls which affect boot order. For instance, it will store Boot-Next under OpenCore's GUID under a different name. It's configurable with UEFI->Quirks->BootVarRouting (and also has more detail about it in the configuration.pdf). Main nice thing is I don't get macOS entries showing up in my firmware picker which can't be booted. Not sure if Clover has an equivalent. This also helps with Windows changing boot order as stated above when an update occur. No commands needed to configure Window's bootloader. This probably explains some differences in experience regarding boot loader entries.

 

I do keep my Windows and macOS on separate drives as well, and make sure the OpenCore entry points to OpenCore.efi, not BOOTx64.efi. Relying on BOOTx64.efi is asking for trouble no matter which bootloader you use, especially if Windows and OpenCore are on the same EFI.

[Guest 5T33Z0]

@makk

Sorry, I won't format my EFI Partition and play with BC Edit just because Clover can't stop Windows from taking over the first position of the boot drive list!  And I won't reinstall Windows 11 either, since It was a clean install on a seperate disk already.

 

[makk]

10 hours ago, 5T33Z0 said:

@makk

Sorry, I won't format my EFI Partition and play with BC Edit just because Clover can't stop Windows from taking over the first position of the boot drive list!  And I won't reinstall Windows 11 either, since It was a clean install on a seperate disk already.

 

No need to reinstall Windows.

 

and editing Bc is simple no loss.

 

I've done it a few time to see what works best.

 

 

[makk]

On 3/21/2022 at 3:35 AM, 5T33Z0 said:

@makk

Sorry, I won't format my EFI Partition and play with BC Edit just because Clover can't stop Windows from taking over the first position of the boot drive list!  And I won't reinstall Windows 11 either, since It was a clean install on a seperate disk already.

 

 

No worries 5T33Z0

 

here's some info to perhaps correct your issues with the Windows booting only.

 

Windows changes boot order

If you dual boot with Windows and your motherboard just boots Windows immediately instead of your chosen EFI application, there are several possible causes and workarounds.
 

• Ensure Fast Startup is disabled in your Windows power options
• Ensure Secure Boot is disabled in your firmware (if you are not using a signed boot loader)
• Ensure your UEFI boot order does not have Windows Boot Manager set first e.g. using efibootmgr and what you see in the configuration tool of the UEFI. Some motherboards override by default any settings set with efibootmgr by Windows if it detects it. This is confirmed in a Packard Bell laptop.
• If your motherboard is booting the default boot path (\EFI\BOOT\BOOTx64.EFI), this file may have been overwritten with the Windows boot loader. Try setting the correct boot path e.g. using efibootmgr.
• If the previous steps do not work, you can tell the Windows boot loader to run a different EFI application. From a Windows administrator command prompt bcdedit /set "{bootmgr}" path "\EFI\path\to\app.efi"
   
• Alternatively, deactivate the Windows Boot Manager by running efibootmgr -A -b bootnumber as root. Replace bootnumber with the actual Windows Boot Manager boot number; you can see it by running efibootmgr with no options.
   
• Alternatively, you can set a startup script in Windows that ensures that the boot order is set correctly every time you boot Windows.
  1. 1 Open a command prompt with administrator privileges. Run bcdedit /enum firmware and find your desired boot entry.
  2. 2 Copy the identifier, including the brackets, e.g. {31d0d5f4-22ad-11e5-b30b-806e6f6e6963}
  3. 3 Create a batch file with the command bcdedit /set "{fwbootmgr}" DEFAULT "{copied-boot-identifier}"
  4. 4 Open gpedit.msc and under Local Computer Policy > Computer Configuration > Windows Settings > Scripts (Startup/Shutdown), choose Startup
  5. 5 Under the Scripts tab, choose the Add button, and select your batch file

Note: Windows 10 Home does not officially include gpedit.msc, although there are unsupported workarounds to install it manually.

• Alternatively, Task Scheduler can be used to run a startup script in Windows:
  1. 1 Follow steps 1-3 above to create the batch file.
  2. 2 Run taskschd.msc, then choose Create Task... from the Action menu.
  3. 3 On the General tab:

     Enter any suitable Name and Description.

     Ensure the user account selected is an "Administrator", not a "Standard User".

     Select "Run whether user is logged in or not".

     Select "Run with highest privileges".

  4. 4 On the Triggers tab, choose "At startup" from the menu, then click OK.
  5. 5 On the Actions tab, click New..., then Browse..., and locate the batch file from step 1.
  6. 6 On the Conditions tab, untick the Power options so the script runs when on battery power (for laptops).
  7. 7 Click OK, and enter the password of the user account selected in step 4 when prompted.
      

     Microsoft Windows boot loader location

     On certain UEFI motherboards like some boards with an Intel Z77 chipset, adding entries with efibootmgr or bcfg from the UEFI Shell will not work because they do not show up on the boot menu list after being added to NVRAM.

     This issue is caused because the motherboards can only load Microsoft Windows. To solve this you have to place the .efi file in the location that Windows uses.

     Copy the BOOTx64.EFI file from the Arch Linux installation medium (FSO:) to the Microsoft directory your ESP partition on your hard drive (FS1:). Do this by booting into EFI shell and typing:

     Shell> mkdir FS1:\EFI\Microsoft
     Shell> mkdir FS1:\EFI\Microsoft\Boot
     Shell> cp FS0:\EFI\BOOT\BOOTx64.EFI FS1:\EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgfw.efi

@5T33Z0

 

Link to that page:

 

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Obtaining_UEFI_Shell

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by makk
Numbers didn't show up

[STLVNUB]

On 3/21/2022 at 4:15 PM, makk said:

@5T33Z0

 

For the install since my installer doesn't allow to select which flavor windows at the Install process, I had to perform

a manual install of Windows to select Windows 10 Pro. which is adds to the complications of the configuration for some reason.

 

So a manual install creates a problem with OC.  

But you get to choose so this is important which flavor of windows the backside way.

 

I omitted, msr which is a waste of space.  Microsoft Reserve.

 

Windows creates EFI, MSR, and Windows partitions. and I think one more?

 

Any way I only have EFI and Windows Partitions. Two.

You still doing things the hard way, Use Windows Install PROPERLY.

It installs its own ESP on the target disk/usb

[makk]

@5T33Z0

 

Here's what you can type in Windows elevated Command Prompt to tell Windows:

 

C:\Windows\System\> bcdedit /set {bootmgr} path \EFI\CLOVER\CLOVERX64.efi

 

For OpenCore:

 

bcdedit /set {bootmgr} path \EFI\OC\OpenCore.efi

 

This may be needed? and this does not cause a reinstalling situation:

we're looking for the EFI System partition of Windows

diskpart

list disk

sel disk X

list part

sel part X

assign letter=B  < we need this so we can verify any time afterwards > 

check your work: list vol, list part, sel part X, detail part

Need to see B for the Partition of EFI System for Windows: there are two EFI's now so we need to distinguish which is which.

 

bcdboot C:\Windows /s B: 

 

this creates a new entry for Shell to catch and boot.

Overrides the previous instance of the EFI's letter if there was one. If not, gives it one. Most cases there is no drive letter.

Such as Windows defaults to when we Open Explorer and look observer, it says, Local Disk or the like but not Windows for "C:"

may have to 'assign' a letter to Windows local drive. Thus we run Diskpart and select the partition and give it a letter.

You can do this in Disk Manager or some third party app like partition wizard free one.

Mini Partition Wizard gives you a graphical view so it gives assurance that you are now working on the partition or volume

you want.

Then you may want to download and install Explorer++ which allows more flexibility, elevated state. give it admin privlige

in Properties, right click on the app and choose Properties and then give it admin or elevated so when you click on it

each time you avoid the give it permission window.  Security integrated thing.

 

 

But to reiterate ... highly recommended... make a lab on one of your drives you aren't to particular with or may be?

could be 500Gb spin drive external

create EFI Guid Format copy of Mac type formatting. duplication or clone 'dd' is good makes exact copy

Install MacOS of your choice

then install Windows 10, 11, preference is Pro.  Home lacks Admin elevation apps. like gpedit and all this.

 

then duplicate your issue is the point here by having a lab-test bed,  to find fixes. 

 

Hope this helps;)

 

 

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, STLVNUB said:

You still doing things the hard way, Use Windows Install PROPERLY.

It installs its own ESP on the target disk/usb

 

Did you check the app for malware? It had one

I tossed it.