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nVidia GPUs and the infamous lag issue, Why is that happening?

Cyberdevs

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TheBloke
TheBloke
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Before the downtime I posted to ask if anyone had thought of trying 10.13.4 in case that might fix NVidia issues?  I know that 10.13.4 contains some changes and fixes for AMD, and it's not impossible it includes general graphical improvements that maybe help NVidia?

Also 161 was released in the time that the forum has been gone.  I upgraded to it on my 760 and I thought it maybe seemed a little better.  Hard to say because I didn't have really glaring problems with the 760 anyway, but it did seem OK.  If anyone with glaring problems didn't notice it was out, then it might be worth trying.  (Though I see it's been added to the nvidia-update.sh blacklist so I guess it's certainly not a major fix.)

Anyway I'm now using an AMD 7970 which, like cyberdevs said, is unquestionably an improvement over any NVidia I've tried :)  Earlier in this thread I got annoyed at someone who said "forget NVidia, go to AMD" but, err..  that is actually what I ended up doing :)

I won't go into great detail as this remains an NV thread, but I will just say that everything is smooth including all UI animations while a full screen video (or two) is running;  CPU usage is lower (even compared to the 760); I can select native/Metal acceleration in Photoshop; and I can connect 6 monitors at once!  All for a cost of only about £50, once I've sold my 760.  Oh and that's for a 3GB versus the 2GB I had before.   Only downside is that I did in fact have to give up a PCIe slot, because the Asus 7970 cards are 2.5 width instead of 2.  But I can live with that - I wasn't really getting any benefit from my LSI controller anyway.

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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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45 minutes ago, fabiosun said:

Also with new GFX and new drivers (161) no lags here and better performance with TitanXp

I'm gonna give it a try later to see if it resolves the issue on my 1070 as well. I just swapped my GPUs so at the moment I have my old R9 270X in my main system.

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fallen00sniper
fallen00sniper
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I have stutter on the blossom page, about once per 30 seconds, so not sure if that is from looping or gpu.

 

I have a similar issue with playerunknown's battlegrounds on the windows side of my hack, but that started after the last driver update that claimed a 7% gain, which was released around the same time as the driver for Mac which also has a stutter when I use something from the dock, some apps.

 

This leaves me to believe it is just an issue with the driver, I've tried using different available bios versions for my card and the version it shipped with is the latest and seems to loose 4-5 fps compared to an older version on the manufacturers website, which eliminates that being my issue, so again I believe it is the driver and the latest version just installed so perhaps I will be one of the fortunate and everything works as expected. Rolling the :dice:

 

Edit:

It seems a little better, dock items stuttered and lagged after boot, now smoothing out with some stutter,  Franz preferences loaded a bit faster with less lag, but it is still present.

 

I have a Gigabyte GTX 1050 Ti G1 Gaming, interesting the forums no longer show my signature or other useful items it once had...

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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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Well the webgl demo is working much better but the UI is still laggy. I guess that's gonna be the point for me that I was afraid of, I'm really considering to move to AMD all together!

As much as I love my 1070 but it breaks my hart that I can't really use that great GPU with my current build so... :blowup:

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Cyberdevs
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26 minutes ago, Kynyo said:

Try to install driver .161 with latest nvidiagraphicsfixup 1.2.3 which has been updated two days ago. Im using GTX 1060 and i dont have UI lag anymore and webGL its working good.

Nope that didn't help solve my problem the UI still stutters and the web GL is showing small laps and lags with the new nVidiaGraphicsFixUp :(

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frankiee
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As I see it the lag might be caused by a huge memory leak affecting at least the window server. I really fell from my chair when I saw that at some point, WindowServer process was using 30GB(!!!) of RAM. Also might explain why some are having lags and others not. As soon as your available RAM is eaten away bc of this leak, swapping will occur, and if that does happen with the window server process, no wonder why the UI starts to stutter. If you have lots of RAM, it might take a bit longer until you notice such problems. Also seems like Pascal GPUs are more effected than older chipsets.

Not sure if that really was the case, but might be an explanation. But, latest 161 drivers seem to have fixed this leak problem (at least for me), so in theory lags should go away as well then.

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Cyberdevs
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1 minute ago, frankiee said:

As I see it the lag might be caused by a huge memory leak affecting at least the window server. I really fell from my chair when I saw that at some point, WindowServer process was using 30GB(!!!) of RAM. Also might explain why some are having lags and others not. As soon as your available RAM is eaten away bc of this leak, swapping will occur, and if that does happen with the window server process, no wonder why the UI starts to stutter. If you have lots of RAM, it might take a bit longer until you notice such problems. Also seems like Pascal GPUs are more effected than older chipsets.

Not sure if that really was the case, but might be an explanation. But, latest 161 drivers seem to have fixed this leak problem (at least for me), so in theory lags should go away as well then.

Well in my experience the lags are not happening because of the amount of the RAM I have in my rig, I have 32 GB of RAM and the stutters are happening at the very beginning when I type in my password the spinning wheel under the password box starts to act up and then the dock loads with the lag and so forth, from what I see Maxwell and Pascal GPUs are affected and I've read somewhere some users with Kepler also have this problem.

The only thing that I haven't tested yet is the nVidiaGraphixFixUp 1.2.3 and Lilu 1.2.2 I tested nVidiafixup 1.2.3 but my lilu was 1.2.1. and honestly I'm really tired of plugging my 1070 in and out form the system just to see if the lag is fixed or not, I think I'm gonna stay with my AMD as long as I'm 100% sure that the issue is fixed once and for all and heck, I might just ditch my 1070 for an AMD RX580 or Vega but the cost of Vega is honestly too high right now :(

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TheBloke
TheBloke
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Yeah, definitely not a WindowServer memory leak in any of my experiences.  When I booted with my 980Ti the lag was immediately noticeable within just a minute of logging in, no time at all for a RAM leak to build.  In any case I have Activity Monitor open at all times and definitely haven't seen WindowServer use much RAM - it's usually around 100MB.

I did associate increased CPU usage of windowserver with the issues, however.  When I used the 980Ti I regularly saw WindowServer using 20+% CPU, and averaging around 10%, where with the 760 it was ~5% and now on AMD it's more like 2%.  (Except when Im running Duet to add an iPad screen, where it does sometimes use more.)

So @frankiee I would think you probably have some other issue causing that vast RAM usage.  Or at least, it's not the common cause of all the issues people are seeing.

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Peke
Peke
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Guys. Its possible that someone can record their desktop lag and upload the file so we can see how bad it is? 

As I read I got the idea that you can´t even use yours hackintosh and sincerely my system works acceptable. Of course I got the lag in the webgl water. It lags ever 2-3 seconds and thats disappointing, but in the blossom there is no lag.

No problems in safari or youtube or seeing movies, videos or even tampering with FCPX

So or my eyes are screwed or this is something related (in the los worrisome cases) outdated kexts, clover. etc.

That's why I think is good to someone upload a file to have as a standard so people can say "yes I got the same lag" or not. Because beside Nvidia underdeveloped drivers maybe others variables are involved and so would be easier to check configuration and test.

 

Edited by Peke
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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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9 hours ago, Peke said:

Guys. Its possible that someone can record their desktop lag and upload the file so we can see how bad it is? 

You can see the video about the lag in this post, and things get worse sometimes. The overall performance is also affected.

 

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/324195-nvidia-web-driver-updates-for-macos-high-sierra-update-03062018/?do=findComment&comment=2589395

Edited by Cyberdevs
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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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1 hour ago, TheBloke said:

Did you mean to include a link?

Sorry I edited the post above, I forgot to paste the link to the video I uploaded to another topic.

 

The thing is that the lag is getting worse in the macOS UI and Safari, the WebGL and the benchmarks are much better but since we use the macOS UI and the applications inside the macOS environment it's really disappointing.

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ReddestDream
ReddestDream
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21 hours ago, Cyberdevs said:

Well in my experience the lags are not happening because of the amount of the RAM I have in my rig, I have 32 GB of RAM and the stutters are happening at the very beginning when I type in my password the spinning wheel under the password box starts to act up and then the dock loads with the lag and so forth, from what I see Maxwell and Pascal GPUs are affected and I've read somewhere some users with Kepler also have this problem.

The only thing that I haven't tested yet is the nVidiaGraphixFixUp 1.2.3 and Lilu 1.2.2 I tested nVidiafixup 1.2.3 but my lilu was 1.2.1. and honestly I'm really tired of plugging my 1070 in and out form the system just to see if the lag is fixed or not, I think I'm gonna stay with my AMD as long as I'm 100% sure that the issue is fixed once and for all and heck, I might just ditch my 1070 for an AMD RX580 or Vega but the cost of Vega is honestly too high right now :(

NvidiaGraphicsFixup isn't going to fix it, no matter what version. At this point, if the Webdriver that comes out with 10.13.4 doesn't match or beat the 10x series of drivers in terms of UI performance, I'm going to come up with a way to plug in both my RX 480 and my 1080ti at the same time and not use the 1080ti in macOS (using Inject-Nvida to inject bogus data via the same method laptops with Optimus use if necessary) to get around the High Sierra bugs with multiple dGPUs. This way I can use the 1080ti in Windows for games, but it's a big PITA because I'll have to swap monitor connections around and 4K KVMs I've run across are too expensive to be feasible. On the bright side, my Linux install would also benefit from AMD graphics . . .

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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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Today I received my new RX 580 GPU and I'll be switching to AMD. I'm really tired of all the hassles that comes with the web drivers and all the lags and the shi**y UI performance.

I'll be keeping an eye on this topic to see how the things go.

Good luck all

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camillionario
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6 minutes ago, Cyberdevs said:

Hoy recibí mi nueva GPU RX 580 y cambiaré a AMD. Estoy realmente cansado de todas las molestias que vienen con los controladores web y todos los rezagos y el rendimiento shi ** y UI.

Estaré atento a este tema para ver cómo van las cosas.

Buena suerte a todos

sleep / wake up going well with AMD?

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Cyberdevs
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59 minutes ago, camillionario said:

sleep / wake up going well with AMD?

Yes, with the WEG or SSDT it works just fine. Actually I just woke my system up from sleep and typing this answer :)

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ReddestDream
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Has anyone here tried running both an AMD and an Nvidia GPU at once, hiding the Nvidia GPU from macOS's VESA driver using Inject Nvidia and bogus properties to avoid the gioscreenlockstate bug in High Sierra when a headless dGPU is present? Such a method works on Optimus laptops, but I'm not sure if it would on a Desktop quite the same way. I have been able to use it to hide the Nvidia card in order to use only the Intel graphics on my Desktop. But I'm wondering if anyone has tried it in an Nvidia+AMD dual dGPU config . . .

If I am forced by Nvidia's horrible drivers to use AMD in macOS and Linux, at least this way I can keep my Nvidia card for gaming in Windows . . . :/

https://github.com/RehabMan/OS-X-Clover-Laptop-Config/commit/9b8610f32098ce224af044c4e482d2b3da2abae0

Edited by ReddestDream
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TheBloke
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3 minutes ago, ReddestDream said:

Has anyone here tried running both an AMD and an Nvidia GPU at once, hiding the Nvidia GPU from macOS's VESA driver using Inject Nvidia and bogus properties to avoid the gioscreenlockstate bug in High Sierra when a headless dGPU is present? Such a method works on Optimus laptops, but I'm not sure if it would on a Desktop quite the same way. I have been able to use it hide the Nvidia card in order to use only the Intel graphics on my Desktop. But I'm wondering if anyone has tried it in an Nvidia+AMD dual dGPU config . . .

If I am forced by Nvidia's horrible drivers to use AMD in macOS and Linux, at least this way I can keep my Nvidia card for gaming in Windows . . . :/

https://github.com/RehabMan/OS-X-Clover-Laptop-Config/commit/9b8610f32098ce224af044c4e482d2b3da2abae0

I haven't, but I could test it if you like.  I'm on an AMD 7970 now and could also install my 980Ti or 760 for testing.

I don't know anything about hiding GPUs with InjectNVidia.  But would that definitely be necessary?  if the card is Maxwell or later and no NVidiaWeb drivers are installed, then only the VESA driver would be loaded, and if no monitor is plugged in, then it wouldn't show in Displays.  And if another GPU is present, eg AMD, wouldn't the OS just use that and ignore the extra VESA adapter?

Or is it known that having an extra VESA adapter definitely causes problems?

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ReddestDream
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19 minutes ago, TheBloke said:

I haven't, but I could test it if you like.  I'm on an AMD 7970 now and could also install my 980Ti or 760 for testing.

I don't know anything about hiding GPUs with InjectNVidia.  But would that definitely be necessary?  if the card is Maxwell or later and no NVidiaWeb drivers are installed, then only the VESA driver would be loaded, and if no monitor is plugged in, then it wouldn't show in Displays.  And if another GPU is present, eg AMD, wouldn't the OS just use that and ignore the extra VESA adapter?

Or is it known that having an extra VESA adapter definitely causes problems?

AFAIK, Maxwell and later cards do show in Displays, at least on Sierra, even with no driver or monitor installed. They have incomplete info because of the missing driver, but they do appear to be detected by the VESA driver and they can operate in VESA mode w/o the Webdriver.

Also, AFAIK, the bug is caused by having a discrete VESA adapter that is not attached to a monitor. And all the reports I've read of people on Reddit and elsewhere attempting AMD+Nvidia configs on High Sierra have ended in gioscreenlockstate bug tears. I believe that hiding the card is necessary, at least on 10.13-10.13.3. Not sure if 10.13.4 has improved anything. I believe it is in fact a bug new in High Sierra in the VESA detection process that leads to the gioscreenlockstate lockup. It did not happen prior to High Sierra AFAIK.

To perform the hiding you must add the Nvidia properties here, turn on Inject Nvidia, and make the AMD card primary in the BIOS, and have no monitors attached to the Nvidia card, only the AMD one. You'll need WhateverGreen/RadeonDeInit or whatever you use because the Nvidia card won't be able to help you since it will disappear as soon macOS sets up the graphics.

https://github.com/RehabMan/OS-X-Clover-Laptop-Config/commit/9b8610f32098ce224af044c4e482d2b3da2abae0

See the question is, I'm not sure if bogus properties + Inject Nvidia will make the VESA driver hang up on /all/ dGPUs or just that Nvidia one if it detects the Nvidia card first. I can only fit the Nvidia card in my first slot and the AMD one in my second . . . :/

Edited by ReddestDream
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TheBloke
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OK fair enough.  I'll give it a go when I have some time to get the case open, probably tomorrow.

My 7970 is detected natively by macOS so I don't need anything to boot - although I do use WEG because without it, sleep/resume was broken in 10.13.3 and in 10.13.4 beta I occasionally fail to reach the login screen ('white screen on boot') which WEG seems to fix.

Unfortunately I can no longer test it easily on 10.13.3, it will have to be 10.13.4 as I upgraded my backup SSD to .4 last night and my main SSD today.  So I won't be able to confirm if there's any difference between those versions.

Edited by TheBloke
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