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AppleHDA Solution - Work in progress

Taruga

By Taruga,
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bliss
bliss
Posted
Posted (edited)

Can someone please tell me how i can make the sigmatel 9220 work?

this file doesnt work for me: codec_Sigma9220.txt from the codec dump collection. in the file it also say 9221 - so this must be wrong

or please tell me how to make a codec dump and ill post it if it works.

 

Sigmatel 9220 on Intel D945PSN

 

thanks

 

Edit: Sorry for my dumbness. found it via google but not in the forum:

 

cd /proc/asound

ls -l (and look for something like codec#0)

cat codec#0 > /tmp/alc.txt

Edited by bliss
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kevinosx
kevinosx
Posted
Posted (edited)
look at post 1161

eh eh eh, gostei da entrada.... :P

 

Proxima versão vai sair com programação dos codecs, logo, penso que vai resolver o problema dos inputs com parte do pessoal.

O problema é que esse e outros codecs da sigmatel, têm nodes que podem ser input ou output e mesmo dentro do mesmo modelo de codec, certo fabricantes, dizem que o node xx é mic e outros dizem que não é nada ou é outra coisa qualquer. Na proxima versão do meu AppleHDA Patcher quem vai mandar no que é o quê sou eu ! :D

E em principio tudo vai bater certo para todos... espero !

Quando aos headphones, o problema tá mais complicado. É que esse codec tem apenas um dac que é partilhado pelo Speaker e Heaphones, ainda não achei maneira de "separar" os dois. Mais com tempo tudo se resolve.

 

Um abraço, (hey.... tb não sou {censored}) :P

For those who can benefit from this information:

Translation for above text:

The next version is going to come out with the codecs programmed, later, I think that it will resolve the problem with the inputs with some people.

The problem is that this and other codecs from sigmatel, have nodes that can be input or output at the same time inside of the same codec model, some brands, say that the node xx is a mic and others say that it's nothing while others say it's something. The next version of my AppleHDA Patcher the person that is going to say what it is what is going to be me!! :D

In principle everything is going to work together for everyone..I hope!!

In respect to the headphones, the problem is a bit more complicated. it's that this codec has only one dac that is shared by the Speakers and Headphones, I still haven't found a way to "seperate" the two. But with time everything will work out :P

 

A hug, (hey, I'm not {censored} either) :P

 

E um abraco do traductor americano que fala portugues e que mora na dinamarca :D-

 

EDIT: this post is in response to the headphone issue of the sigmatel 9200 Stac9200 sound card

Edited by kevinosx
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carpao
carpao
Posted
Posted

Hi

please help me...

I didn't succeded... in fact I hear nothing and there is no output sound device in the System preferences

 

Following are my data

 

The computer is a Toshiba M400 with the Sigmatel 9200

 

This is my kernel (It should be DaemonsES)

8.8.1 Darwin Kernel Version 8.8.1: Fri Nov 3 20:57:08 GMT 2006; dima:xnu-792.13.8/BUILD/obj/RELEASE_I386 i386 i386

 

This is my codec dump (from ubuntu)

Codec: SigmaTel STAC9200

Address: 0

Vendor Id: 0x83847690

Subsystem Id: 0x11790463

Revision Id: 0x102201

Default PCM: rates 0x7e0, bits 0x0e, types 0x1

Default Amp-In caps: N/A

Default Amp-Out caps: ofs=0x1f, nsteps=0x1f, stepsize=0x05, mute=1

Node 0x02 [Audio Output] wcaps 0xd0401: Stereo

Power: 0x0

Node 0x03 [Audio Input] wcaps 0x1d0541: Stereo

Power: 0x0

Connection: 1

0x0a

Node 0x04 [Audio Input] wcaps 0x140311: Stereo Digital

PCM: rates 0x160, bits 0x0e, types 0x5

Connection: 1

0x08

Node 0x05 [Audio Output] wcaps 0x40211: Stereo Digital

PCM: rates 0x1e0, bits 0x0e, types 0x5

Node 0x06 [Vendor Defined Widget] wcaps 0xf30201: Stereo Digital

Node 0x07 [Audio Selector] wcaps 0x300901: Stereo

Connection: 3

0x02* 0x08 0x0a

Node 0x08 [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x430681: Stereo Digital

Pincap 0x0810024: IN EAPD Detect

Pin Default 0x40f000fd: [N/A] Other at Ext N/A

Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown

Pin-ctls: 0x00:

Power: 0x0

Node 0x09 [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400301: Stereo Digital

Pincap 0x0810: OUT

Pin Default 0x40f000fe: [N/A] Other at Ext N/A

Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown

Pin-ctls: 0x00:

Connection: 2

0x05* 0x0a

Node 0x0a [Audio Selector] wcaps 0x30090d: Stereo Amp-Out

Amp-Out caps: ofs=0x00, nsteps=0x0f, stepsize=0x05, mute=1

Amp-Out vals: [0x00 0x00]

Connection: 1

0x0c

Node 0x0b [Audio Selector] wcaps 0x300105: Stereo Amp-Out

Amp-Out caps: N/A

Amp-Out vals: [0x1f 0x1f]

Connection: 1

0x07

Node 0x0c [Audio Selector] wcaps 0x30010d: Stereo Amp-Out

Amp-Out caps: ofs=0x00, nsteps=0x04, stepsize=0x27, mute=0

Amp-Out vals: [0x00 0x00]

Connection: 5

0x10* 0x0f 0x0e 0x0d 0x12

Node 0x0d [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400181: Stereo

Pincap 0x083f: IN OUT HP Detect

Pin Default 0x40f000fa: [N/A] Other at Ext N/A

Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown

Pin-ctls: 0x00:

Connection: 1

0x0b

Node 0x0e [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400181: Stereo

Pincap 0x083f: IN OUT HP Detect

Pin Default 0xd0070110: [both] Line Out at Int N/A

Conn = Analog, Color = Unknown

Pin-ctls: 0x40: OUT

Connection: 1

0x0b

Node 0x0f [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400181: Stereo

Pincap 0x0837: IN OUT Detect

Pin Default 0x40f000f9: [N/A] Other at Ext N/A

Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown

Pin-ctls: 0x20: IN

Connection: 1

0x0b

Node 0x10 [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400181: Stereo

Pincap 0x081737: IN OUT Detect

Pin Default 0xc2a11120: [both] Mic at Ext Front

Conn = 1/8, Color = Black

Pin-ctls: 0x24: IN

Connection: 1

0x0b

Node 0x11 [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400104: Mono Amp-Out

Amp-Out caps: N/A

Amp-Out vals: [0x00]

Pincap 0x0810: OUT

Pin Default 0x40f000fb: [N/A] Other at Ext N/A

Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown

Pin-ctls: 0x00:

Connection: 1

0x13

Node 0x12 [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400001: Stereo

Pincap 0x0820: IN

Pin Default 0x40f000fc: [N/A] Other at Ext N/A

Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown

Pin-ctls: 0x20: IN

Node 0x13 [Audio Mixer] wcaps 0x200100: Mono

Connection: 1

0x07

Node 0x14 [beep Generator Widget] wcaps 0x70000c: Mono Amp-Out

Amp-Out caps: ofs=0x03, nsteps=0x03, stepsize=0x17, mute=1

Amp-Out vals: [0x00]

 

I used Patcher 1.14b

 

and this is its output

AppleHDA Patcher - 2006/2007 Taruga v1.14b

 

* Patching AppleHDA.kext to 0x83847690 Done

* Checking AppleHDA for patch Done

0001f2cb cmpl $0x83847690,%eax

000203d7 cmpl $0x83847690,%eax

* Checking for SPDIF Out Not Detected

* Checking for SPDIF In Not Detected

* Creating AppleHDA configs

* Using the following nodes in pathmap

 

Back Mic: 3 10 12 15

Speaker : 14 11 7 2

 

* Copying new config to destination Done

 

 

Any idea?

thanks in advance

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bliss
bliss
Posted
Posted

Hi reporting sigmatel 9220 is also not working.

i got volume pannel working, but no sound from no jack

 

heres my codec stuff:

Codec: SigmaTel STAC9221 A1
Address: 2
Vendor Id: 0x83847680
Subsystem Id: 0x80860b0b
Revision Id: 0x103201
Default PCM: rates 0x7e0, bits 0x0e, types 0x1
Default Amp-In caps: ofs=0x00, nsteps=0x0e, stepsize=0x05, mute=1
Default Amp-Out caps: ofs=0x7f, nsteps=0x7f, stepsize=0x02, mute=1
Node 0x02 [Audio Output] wcaps 0xd0c05: Stereo Amp-Out
 Amp-Out caps: N/A
 Amp-Out vals:  [0xff 0xff]
 Power: 0x0
Node 0x03 [Audio Output] wcaps 0xd0c05: Stereo Amp-Out
 Amp-Out caps: N/A
 Amp-Out vals:  [0xff 0xff]
 Power: 0x0
Node 0x04 [Audio Output] wcaps 0xd0c05: Stereo Amp-Out
 Amp-Out caps: N/A
 Amp-Out vals:  [0xff 0xff]
 Power: 0x0
Node 0x05 [Audio Output] wcaps 0xd0c05: Stereo Amp-Out
 Amp-Out caps: N/A
 Amp-Out vals:  [0xff 0xff]
 Power: 0x0
Node 0x06 [Audio Input] wcaps 0x1d0541: Stereo
 Power: 0x0
 Connection: 1
 0x17
Node 0x07 [Audio Input] wcaps 0x1d0541: Stereo
 Power: 0x0
 Connection: 1
 0x18
Node 0x08 [Audio Output] wcaps 0x40211: Stereo Digital
 PCM: rates 0x7e0, bits 0x0e, types 0x5
Node 0x09 [Audio Input] wcaps 0x140311: Stereo Digital
 PCM: rates 0x160, bits 0x0e, types 0x5
 Connection: 1
 0x11
Node 0x0a [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400181: Stereo
 Pincap 0x08173f: IN OUT HP Detect
 Pin Default 0x0221401f: [Jack] HP Out at Ext Front
Conn = 1/8, Color = Green
 Pin-ctls: 0xc0: OUT HP
 Connection: 1
 0x02
Node 0x0b [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400181: Stereo
 Pincap 0x081737: IN OUT Detect
 Pin Default 0x01a19022: [Jack] Mic at Ext Rear
Conn = 1/8, Color = Pink
 Pin-ctls: 0x24: IN
 Connection: 1
 0x04
Node 0x0c [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400181: Stereo
 Pincap 0x081737: IN OUT Detect
 Pin Default 0x01813021: [Jack] Line In at Ext Rear
Conn = 1/8, Color = Blue
 Pin-ctls: 0x20: IN
 Connection: 1
 0x03
Node 0x0d [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400181: Stereo
 Pincap 0x08173f: IN OUT HP Detect
 Pin Default 0x01014010: [Jack] Line Out at Ext Rear
Conn = 1/8, Color = Green
 Pin-ctls: 0x40: OUT
 Connection: 1
 0x02
Node 0x0e [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400081: Stereo
 Pincap 0x0824: IN Detect
 Pin Default 0x40000100: [N/A] Line Out at Ext N/A
Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown
 Pin-ctls: 0x20: IN
Node 0x0f [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400181: Stereo
 Pincap 0x0837: IN OUT Detect
 Pin Default 0x40000100: [N/A] Line Out at Ext N/A
Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown
 Pin-ctls: 0x40: OUT
 Connection: 1
 0x05
Node 0x10 [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400301: Stereo Digital
 Pincap 0x0810: OUT
 Pin Default 0x40000100: [N/A] Line Out at Ext N/A
Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown
 Pin-ctls: 0x00:
 Connection: 3
 0x08* 0x17 0x19
Node 0x11 [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x430681: Stereo Digital
 Pincap 0x0810024: IN EAPD Detect
 Pin Default 0x40000100: [N/A] Line Out at Ext N/A
Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown
 Pin-ctls: 0x00:
 Power: 0x0
Node 0x12 [Audio Selector] wcaps 0x30010d: Stereo Amp-Out
 Amp-Out caps: ofs=0x00, nsteps=0x04, stepsize=0x27, mute=0
 Amp-Out vals:  [0x00 0x00]
 Connection: 7
 0x0e* 0x15 0x0f 0x0b 0x0c 0x0d 0x0a
Node 0x13 [Audio Selector] wcaps 0x30010d: Stereo Amp-Out
 Amp-Out caps: ofs=0x00, nsteps=0x04, stepsize=0x27, mute=0
 Amp-Out vals:  [0x00 0x00]
 Connection: 7
 0x0e 0x15* 0x0f 0x0b 0x0c 0x0d 0x0a
Node 0x14 [Beep Generator Widget] wcaps 0x70000c: Mono Amp-Out
 Amp-Out caps: ofs=0x03, nsteps=0x03, stepsize=0x17, mute=0
 Amp-Out vals:  [0x00]
Node 0x15 [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400001: Stereo
 Pincap 0x0820: IN
 Pin Default 0x02a19120: [Jack] Mic at Ext Front
Conn = 1/8, Color = Pink
 Pin-ctls: 0x20: IN
Node 0x16 [Volume Knob Widget] wcaps 0x600000: Mono
Node 0x17 [Audio Selector] wcaps 0x300903: Stereo Amp-In
 Amp-In caps: N/A
 Amp-In vals:  [0x80 0x80]
 Connection: 1
 0x12
Node 0x18 [Audio Selector] wcaps 0x300903: Stereo Amp-In
 Amp-In caps: N/A
 Amp-In vals:  [0x80 0x80]
 Connection: 1
 0x13
Node 0x19 [Vendor Defined Widget] wcaps 0xf30201: Stereo Digital
Node 0x1a [Audio Output] wcaps 0x30201: Stereo Digital
Node 0x1b [Pin Complex] wcaps 0x400301: Stereo Digital
 Pincap 0x0810: OUT
 Pin Default 0x40000100: [N/A] Line Out at Ext N/A
Conn = Unknown, Color = Unknown
 Pin-ctls: 0x00:
 Connection: 1
 0x1a

 

and heres my output:

AppleHDA Patcher - 2006/2007 Taruga v1.14b			

* Patching AppleHDA.kext to 0x83847680				Done
* Checking AppleHDA for patch						Done
0001f2cb	cmpl	$0x83847680,%eax
000203d7	cmpl	$0x83847680,%eax
* Checking for SPDIF Out 							Not Detected
* Checking for SPDIF In							  Not Detected
* Creating AppleHDA configs
* Using the following nodes in pathmap

 Back Mic: 6 23 18 11
Speaker  : 13 2

* Copying new config to destination					Done
* Repairing Permissions
Started verify/repair permissions on disk disk1s1 Macintosh HD
Determining correct file permissions.
The privileges have been verified or repaired on the selected volume
Verify/repair finished permissions on disk disk1s1 Macintosh HD
* Deleting Extensions Cache							Done

** Done patching - You can reboot now **

 

seems that i have to walk on with the old 10.4.3 sound kext with sound from line in ... :thumbsup_anim:

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pRoFeSSiOnAl
pRoFeSSiOnAl
Posted
Posted

Hi Taruga ...

 

with 1.14b I only get:

 

 

AppleHDA Patcher - 2006/2007 Taruga v1.14b

_______________________________________________________

Codec : Analog Devices AD1988B

Vendor Id : 0x11d4198b

Subsystem Id : 0x104381f6

_______________________________________________________

 

Quit

 

Any hopes for me to get digital out and mic in??????? Can I help with something?

 

Christian :-)

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iwannadl
iwannadl
Posted
Posted (edited)
Show me the result (of AppleHDA Patcher) when you drag the codec dump into it , to understand what´s happening with you

 

Thanks for reply. Please see the result of Patcher 1.10-1.14 on my computer:

 

post-39834-1171343419_thumb.png

Edited by iwannadl
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elpato488
elpato488
Posted
Posted

hey, I'm on a Toshiba m7 with Realtek HD audio, ALC262.

I tried using the dump from the front page as well as one i got from running knoppix. both result in the patcher saying that I have an unsupported card. Is the patcher not written yet to support this chipset or is it an error, as there is a link to a 262 dump on the first post of this thread? My codec dump is attached.

mycodec.txt

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Analog
Analog
Posted
Posted

First off, I'd like to thank Taruga for his work on this - I owe you a cold one, man! Like everyone else in this thread - thank you for your hard work!

 

Now, is there a good resource on these codecs I could use to help with this effort? I have programming experience and would like to help separate the speakers from the headphones, if possible. How do these codecs map to the actual OSX framework, and how do the nodes map? I have a few ideas for workarounds (based on reading the codec and a couple of rather dead-end resources), but I'm not sure if they are actually feasible.

 

Thanks again for the work, and I'd like to help any way I can!

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ehh
ehh
Posted
Posted

Here's some information regarding eVGA 680i onboard sound:

 

Device Description nVIDIA nForce 570 SLI (MCP55P) - High Definition Audio Controller

Bus Type PCI

Bus / Device / Function 0 / 15 / 1

Device ID 10DE-0371

Subsystem ID 10DE-C55E

Device Class 0403 (High Definition Audio)

Revision A2

Fast Back-to-Back Transactions Supported, Disabled

 

Device Features

66 MHz Operation Supported

Bus Mastering Enabled

 

Driver Description Realtek High Definition Audio

Driver Date 11/3/2006

Driver Version 5.10.0.5319

Driver Provider Realtek Semiconductor Corp.

INF File oem17.inf

Hardware ID HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0885&SUBSYS_10ECE601&REV_1001

Location Information Internal High Definition Audio Bus

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valerysch
valerysch
Posted
Posted

SigmaTel 9200D is working! 0x83847691 ID!

 

Nice job Taruga! Really thank you! I appreciate your work very much... and sending to you success report along with .txt file from linux, so you can include support for another SigmaTel modification.

 

I have managed to get working SigmaTel 9200D (that is not supported by v1.14 yet without hacking). That SigmaTel 9200D is inside of Toshiba Qosmio F30 notebook, so at least only several non-working devices left :-) It found Internal Speakers, Digital Out and Internal Microphone.

 

What I did. I booted into Gentoo Live CD and extracted from /proc/asound codec#0 file (look in attachments - sigmatelx.txt). Vendor ID is: 0x83847691 (!!!) When I drag - and - dropped this file to AppleHDAPatcher_v1.14 - it said that vendor is not compatible. After that, I edited sigmatelx.txt and changed 0x83847691 to 0x83847690 (SigmaTel 9200 which is supported!). Then, repeated patching.

At this point I got /System/Library/Extensions/AppleHDA.kext locked to wrong vendorid.

 

After reading through guide, I have edited:

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHDA.kext/Contents/MacOS/AppleHDA

with binary editor (actually midnight commander from darwinports) and replaced sequence 0x90 0x76 0x84 0x83 to 0x91 0x76 0x94 0x83 twice

And edited also 2 Info.plist files.

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHDA.kext/Contents/Info.plist

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHDA.kext/Contents/PlugIns/AppleHDAController.kext/Contents/Info.plist

 

Replaced there decimal representation of 0x8384769x: 2206496400 to 2206496401

 

After all of that did permission repair :( And restarted! Everything works!

Sending to you attach, as you can clearly enable this just out of box as supported vendorid. If you manage to extract more devices - that would be interested as well, I am unfortunately

no way expert in audio cards :2cents:

sigmatelx.txt

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Taruga
Taruga
Posted
  • Author
Posted
SigmaTel 9200D is working! 0x83847691 ID!

 

Nice job Taruga! Really thank you! I appreciate your work very much... and sending to you success report along with .txt file from linux, so you can include support for another SigmaTel modification.

 

I have managed to get working SigmaTel 9200D (that is not supported by v1.14 yet without hacking). That SigmaTel 9200D is inside of Toshiba Qosmio F30 notebook, so at least only several non-working devices left :-) It found Internal Speakers, Digital Out and Internal Microphone.

 

What I did. I booted into Gentoo Live CD and extracted from /proc/asound codec#0 file (look in attachments - sigmatelx.txt). Vendor ID is: 0x83847691 (!!!) When I drag - and - dropped this file to AppleHDAPatcher_v1.14 - it said that vendor is not compatible. After that, I edited sigmatelx.txt and changed 0x83847691 to 0x83847690 (SigmaTel 9200 which is supported!). Then, repeated patching.

At this point I got /System/Library/Extensions/AppleHDA.kext locked to wrong vendorid.

 

After reading through guide, I have edited:

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHDA.kext/Contents/MacOS/AppleHDA

with binary editor (actually midnight commander from darwinports) and replaced sequence 0x90 0x76 0x84 0x83 to 0x91 0x76 0x94 0x83 twice

And edited also 2 Info.plist files.

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHDA.kext/Contents/Info.plist

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleHDA.kext/Contents/PlugIns/AppleHDAController.kext/Contents/Info.plist

 

Replaced there decimal representation of 0x8384769x: 2206496400 to 2206496401

 

After all of that did permission repair :thumbsup_anim: And restarted! Everything works!

Sending to you attach, as you can clearly enable this just out of box as supported vendorid. If you manage to extract more devices - that would be interested as well, I am unfortunately

no way expert in audio cards :shock:

 

Thanx, 0x83847691 was not in my list, just added it now

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rainman2006
rainman2006
Posted
Posted (edited)

I have the Sigmatel 9200 but get a kernel panic when I install... I think it is my kernel...

 

have all of you who got it working have SSE3? i have sse2... if you do too, and got it working please tell me exactly what you did!

 

is there a kernel update i need to get specifically? how do i get it exactly?

 

thanking you in advance (in my very silent room)

Edited by rainman2006
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BondDotCom
BondDotCom
Posted
Posted
hi taruga... for me it's not working....

 

the appleHDA patcher crash the system (kernel panic), every version.....

 

my system is JaS 10.4.8

 

I don't know what can I do more...... :whistle:

Answer are in this thread.

 

I have the Sigmatel 9200 but get a kernel panic when I install... I think it is my kernel...

 

have all of you who got it working have SSE3? i have sse2... if you do too, and got it working please tell me exactly what you did!

 

is there a kernel update i need to get specifically? how do i get it exactly?

 

thanking you in advance (in my very silent room)

You too.

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misterd
misterd
Posted
Posted
ummm, maybe, but after my attempt to trawl through all 62 pages forgive me for not seeing it clearly.

 

what is the solution please - or can you at least tell me the page number of the "answer"?

QUOTE......!

 

BonDotCom, beleave me, I have done anything, but I ear no sound and the system do not recognize the audio card....

 

It's probably that I miss something.....

there are 63 pages of infos, and it's not so easy to understand what and how to do.....

 

thanks anyway

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rainman2006
rainman2006
Posted
Posted

have all of you who got it working have SSE3? i have sse2 with 10.4.8... if you do too, and got it working please tell me exactly what you did!

 

is there a kernel update i need to get specifically? how do i get it exactly?

 

thanking you in advance (in my very silent room)

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Nonpollolike
Nonpollolike
Posted
Posted

Taruga:

 

Thank you for your work!

 

Here is my question (sorry if too obvious for you).

 

When I drop codecdump onto patcher, ask me for password bla bla, then the app shows three lines of text, then it's done and I quit

 

It this the way it's supossed to be or I am missing something. (because sound doesn't works and I wonder if something is failing)

 

I took the codec dump from the ftp you suggested (ALC 262)

 

Anyway I'm downloading knopixx right now :stretcher:

 

Thanks.

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Taruga
Taruga
Posted
  • Author
Posted
hi Taruga, my adi 1986a no work with 1.15 patch :D ....

 

i`m still wait ...

 

I don´t know about v1.15, but at the moment I´m testing the same board you have with v1.14, and sound is working.

But support for 1986a is very limited yet... only Speaker and Spdif

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BondDotCom
BondDotCom
Posted
Posted
ummm, maybe, but after my attempt to trawl through all 62 pages forgive me for not seeing it clearly.

 

what is the solution please - or can you at least tell me the page number of the "answer"?

Ummm, I show 32 pages but all you have to do is go back one page, or two, or three -- it's been answered on just about every page of this thread.

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