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APFS on hackintosh with disk hdd

Nila

By Nila,
in OSx86 10.13 (High Sierra)

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Nila
Nila
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I have installed High Sierra(10.13) beta on my hackintosh with normal HDD. My smbios is iMac 14.2. I have converted my filesystem to APFS. With apfs.efi in clover, I am able to boot my hack but the performance is slow and there are lot of error messages while booting mac. Is APFS good for hackintosh at all? Somewhere I have heard that it is good only in original mac with apple firmware. Is there anyway I could revert back to hfs without formatting?

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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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I have installed High Sierra(10.13) beta on my hackintosh with normal HDD. My smbios is iMac 14.2. I have converted my filesystem to APFS. With apfs.efi in clover, I am able to boot my hack but the performance is slow and there are lot of error messages while booting mac. Is APFS good for hackintosh at all? Somewhere I have heard that it is good only in original mac with apple firmware. Is there anyway I could revert back to hfs without formatting?

APFS is not good for any mechanical HDDs at least not yet, it's so slow on both Macintosh and Hackintosh.

 

You can't convert APFS to HFS you need to erase the whole hard disk using disk utility and format it as HFS. You might get errors while doing it in macOS High Sierra and some times it won't be formatted as HFS even in Sierra, if disk utility in Sierra failed you can use El Capitan to easily re-fromat the disk.

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smolderas
smolderas
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APFS is not good for any mechanical HDDs at least not yet, it's so slow on both Macintosh and Hackintosh.

 

You can't convert APFS to HFS you need to erase the whole hard disk using disk utility and format it as HFS. You might get errors while doing it in macOS High Sierra and some times it won't be formatted as HFS even in Sierra, if disk utility in Sierra failed you can use El Capitan to easily re-fromat the disk.

Why do I see that comment everytime. Do you have some numbers or any benchmarks?

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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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Why do I see that comment everytime. Do you have some numbers or any benchmarks?

No I don't have any numbers or benchmarks, but I did test APFS on various computers, Macintosh and Hackintosh and every time the results were the same, it was painfully slow on all of them.

So far I tested APFS on 5400 RPM and 7200RPM with SATA III both 6.0 GB/s and 3 GB/s hard disks and the APFS performance wasn't as appealing as HFS on a mechanical hard disk, although on 6.0 GB 7200 RPM it was bearable but it takes longer to load macOS High Sierra completely on APFS rather than the HFS.

 

Did you have a better performance with a mechanical HDD and the APFS?

Or did you find a way to convert the APFS to HFS?

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smolderas
smolderas
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No I don't have any numbers or benchmarks, but I did test APFS on various computers, Macintosh and Hackintosh and every time the results were the same, it was painfully slow on all of them.

So far I tested APFS on 5400 RPM and 7200RPM with SATA III both 6.0 GB/s and 3 GB/s hard disks and the APFS performance wasn't as appealing as HFS on a mechanical hard disk, although on 6.0 GB 7200 RPM it was bearable but it takes longer to load macOS High Sierra completely on APFS rather than the HFS.

 

Did you have a better performance with a mechanical HDD and the APFS?

Or did you find a way to convert the APFS to HFS?

No, I'm just curious about the performance and would only believe, if I see some benchmark and not someone's say so...

According to the beta documentation (dated 1 years early) it was currently at that day not possible to convert apfs to hfs (why would you need one?)...

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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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No, I'm just curious about the performance and would only believe, if I see some benchmark and not someone's say so...

According to the beta documentation (dated 1 years early) it was currently at that day not possible to convert apfs to hfs (why would you need one?)...

Well for starters you can test the performance yourself and see how it performs on your hardware and don't take anyone else's word for it and please let me know how it worked out for you.

and as I mentioned before using 6GBs SATA III hdd is not that bad and you can get much more better performance out of it specially if it is 7200RPM hdd rather than the 5400 and it's getting better over time.

 

BUT IMHO there is a big difference between something just working and it performing to the best of its capability and performance. APFS might just be working on some hard disks but it's not performing as it should, at least not yet.

 

can you send me a link to that document? I would like to take a look at that document.

About the APFS on a hackintosh you can check piker alpha's website he made a new topic on the subject that you might find useful.

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Nila
Nila
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I think apple firmware is needed in hdd which real macs have is required to get full advantage of APFS. Is there any chance of getting some software emulator or other driver that can make hackintosh able to use APFS at it's full potential?

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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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I think apple firmware is needed in hdd which real macs have is required to get full advantage of APFS. Is there any chance of getting some software emulator or other driver that can make hackintosh able to use APFS at it's full potential?

I did test DP1 and DP 2 on real Macs and there was no difference. Apple Firmware is certainly required for the Security, Stability and error corrections of APFS. I haven't tested the DP2 update 1 on an Apple computer  yet.

 

About the emulation we can only hope that the developers can find a way to emulate it. But remember we are still in the beta phase of the macOS High Sierra and there will be lots of improvements in the final release.

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Nila
Nila
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sudo nvram -c

sudo purge

sudo rm 

-f /System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kext.caches/Startup/kernelcache && sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions && sudo kextcache -u /

sudo update_dyld_shared_cache -force

 

Thank you cyberdevs for this one.

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Badruzeus
Badruzeus
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For some reasons I rolled back my 10.13 APFS Partition to HFS+, there's still no another way except re-installing it after Erased. I just care about my NTFS partitions that contain many important files, while I'm using 3rd party apps to make it r/w; I'm not sure if those apps will work fine under OS that run using APFS. Also many file recovery apps still have no support for this new one, how if data loss happened then? My data is more important than it's speed, though unfortunately I loss the last one  :lol: LoL.. APFS on 5400rpm mechanical HDD, seriously?

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Badruzeus
Badruzeus
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Sorry but I don't understand why using Apfs on HDD

When Apple has already said APFS is currently unsupported on it

 

 

LoL.. so we can double confirmed it's "disaster" on HDD as @cyberdevs said before  :drool:

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Badruzeus
Badruzeus
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Apple has already said it  :P

 

 

Really? Hmmb, so it's "For educational purpose only" then, said on 2020: "My child, I've ever installed macOS 10.13 using HDD on 2017 while Apple said it should to be installed on SSD. Then, I lost my data contain ur Mom's album". What that child said? "DWYOR...!!! Death, oh Dad"..

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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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Apple has already said it  :P

Do you have a link to the article? I haven't read/heard anything official from Apple regarding the APFS on mechanical HDDs.

But I successfully installed macOS High Sierra on APFS on a HDD not 5400 RPM but 7200 RPM and as I posted to the the performance is completely acceptable after rebuilding the kernel cache :)

But as the matter of safety and reliability we need to run more tests and more time to observe the performance in actual day to day tasks.

Update: the only article I've read so far from apple is this one: https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/APFS_Guide/FAQ/FAQ.html

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gengik84
gengik84
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Right ... at the same time I also read conflicting theories.

If I find the discussions, I put the links here

 

But I successfully installed macOS High Sierra on APFS on a HDD not 5400 RPM but 7200 RPM and as I posted to the the performance is completely acceptable after rebuilding the kernel cache :)

But as the matter of safety and reliability we need to run more tests and more time to observe the performance in actual day to day tasks.

I read your post... :yes:

Ok, acceptable performance but still to control, as you said
Some friends tell me that apfs does not go as it should, in their real macs
Anyway, it's  work in progress ... we'll see
:)
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Cyberdevs
Cyberdevs
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Right ... at the same time I also read conflicting theories.

If I find the discussions, I put the links here

 

I read your post... :yes:

Ok, acceptable performance but still to control, as you said
Some friends tell me that apfs does not go as it should, in their real macs
Anyway, it's  work in progress ... we'll see
:)

 

I really like to read more on the subject that's why I'm asking for the links :) or any article that is out there, I've read some articles about APFS but the more we read the more we can learn :)

I also did some tests on Apple products but they were not satisfactory, as a matter of fact I'm installing macOS High Sierra on an 14,1 iMac as we speak. but to be honest I don't expect much. ;)

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freesby
freesby
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I think apple firmware is needed in hdd which real macs have is required to get full advantage of APFS. Is there any chance of getting some software emulator or other driver that can make hackintosh able to use APFS at it's full potential?

 

Where did you get that you need some Apple firmware to use APFS?

 

I did test DP1 and DP 2 on real Macs and there was no difference. Apple Firmware is certainly required for the Security, Stability and error corrections of APFS. I haven't tested the DP2 update 1 on an Apple computer  yet.

 

About the emulation we can only hope that the developers can find a way to emulate it. But remember we are still in the beta phase of the macOS High Sierra and there will be lots of improvements in the final release.

 

From where exactly did get the information that you need some Apple firmware to use APFS for "security, stability and error correction"?  Because I am starting to see this claim in some comments but there's no a source to confirm that.

 

For instance, Apple is not really  relying on the file system for data integrity, they are simply relying on the built in ECC features of their data storage devices. Meaning that you don't need their firmware for that, you just need a good storage device with high quality ECC. Which is true for any device regardless of the file system anyway.

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