Jobs Says Pirates Will "Burn in Hell"

[Takuro]

............................................

[blahsucks]

Frankly, I don't have a problem with Apple trying to keep their products secret. Nothing wrong with stopping cheap copiers.

 

And, to the OSX on clone people: Not gonna happen. At all. Period. Sorry, but unless Apple comes up with some sort of gigantic marketing campaign, they won't do it. The only way you'll see OSX on other PCs is if Apple personally admits the specs for every model produced. You can bet they'll have prior deals made if they ever do it.

 

EDIT: It seems to me that he was saying this in a joking manner. People are probably just overanalyzing it.

[johnniecarcinogen]

Job's is complaining about people stealing OSX86. If he put it on store shelves, they would have bought it.

No. He is not complaining, read the entire article @ http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=12672 and read the line:

“We choose to give away some software for free, we choose not to give away other software”, he added.

Implying they did indeed want 10.4.1 x86 in the wild.

 

EDIT: The US macworld and other articles seem to leave that line out.

[Zwan]

I'd like OSX for my PC just like everyone else, but I still highly doubt it will happen in the near future.

legally anyway

[Guest terry]

Implying they did indeed want 10.4.1 x86 in the wild.

Huh? Now that's a weird interpretation. I thought "software for free" (in: “We choose to give away some software for free, we choose not to give away other software”) was implying iTunes and stuff (like Bonjour for Windows), and not pirated OS X for Intel Previews.

[johnniecarcinogen]

well, he does add it after saying

But Apple’s leader isn’t pulling punches when it comes to his battle with the pirates. “Theft is bad”, he said, warning: “You don’t want to burn in Hell.”

which to me sounds like he is being sarcastic after saying that the developer x86 releases do not have the technology the final release will to keep it from being pirated. (proprietary chipset?)

 

definately not the tone apple had when tiger was leaked before its release date and they sued people.

 

EDIT: it may be a misinterpretation, but the subject of the conversation when he said that was OS X and it was omitted on the later posted US http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/09/20/jobsparis/index.php

[Guest terry]

In simple terms, it'd be like Jobs saying "I'm the CEO of Apple who co-founded the company. Stealing OS X is very {censored}." And then somebody presenting it out of context as: "I'm the CEO of Apple who" said Jobs, "is very {censored}." (See how it totally changes the meaning)

Haha, as Jobs is often regarded as some sort of messiah, this reminds me a bit of the Sermon on the Mount scene in Monty Python's The Life of Brian, where people were trying to reconstruct what the great man was saying (or was meaning to say):

 

Jesus: Blessed are the peacemakers...

Crowd: What did he say? What did he say?

(The people are so far away they can't listen properly.)

Spectator: I think it was "Blessed are the cheesemakers".

Bearded Man's Wife: Aha, what's so special about the cheesemakers?

Bearded Man: Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products...

 

[fishbert]

Is it wrong to be using OSX86? Yes if you didn't rent a Developer kit from Apple. Why is it wrong? Because you are getting a service(the OS) for less than what you are supposed to be paying for it, and you probably obtained it illegally. I beleive the fact that you even have a copy of it is illegal. Now, is it "bad"? Well it depends is it bad for you? No. Is it bad for Apple? Maybe. Just the fact that you have a copy of it suggests that they don't really care that much about it. Im sure if they wanted zero leaks there is a way for them to put in code into the operating system that would find all these people running OSX86 and gather enough information about them to be able to sue each and every single one of these people who run OSX86 on non developer kits. It's not impossible. Why doesn't Apple do such a thing? I myself don't know but, i personnally think it's because it's not that important for them.

All these people posting about Apple how apple is using us as Beta Testers makes me kind of giggle. Seriously people, there is no secret plot by apple to gain market share by throwing OSX86 out in the wild. It is not so that we can reverse engineer all the bugs out of thier TPM and they could use us for Free research. The people installing OSX86 on their machines are not the core audience of Apple. Im sure that it's good that some people are exposed to it and may one day buy macs but the people on these forums are not the Target audience.

Get a grip people. I am sure that Steve Jobs statement was taken out of context, or the spirit in which he said it was not translated by the article. Let me cite some examples. Free Apps, Apple gives away free software. Amazingly good free software. No product activation, no anti piracy measure on their products they sell. ILIFE, OSX. I mean if they really wanted to protect these assets they would at least try. The thing is that's not Apple's THING. sorry for the grammar and spelling awfullness.

[blahsucks]

It's not "wrong." Yes, it's illegal, but I doubt you could say that it is morally wrong (but that's a whole 'nother debate). After all, you can't go to a store and buy an unlocked copy of 10.4.1, can you? Apple is not losing any money because the people here are not the target audience, as you said. You can bet that they'll protect 10.4.3 and the OEM 10.4 better, though. It's not their focus to lock us out now; it's to help the devs.

[CFran]

Hehe - yes, this is Steve as we all know and love him!

I wonder, if he remembers the times, when he claimed to be a pirat himself back in the early, golden days at Apple Corp.?

 

It's all just a little bit of history repeating...

 

lol yeah, remember what "he" said in Pirates of Silicon Valley : "Good artists copy, great artists steal". See you in hell, Steve

 

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=12672

 

I find Job's statement quite interesting because he chose to argue from a moral and not a legal point of view. It rather looks to me like he's lightheartedly poking fun at the pirates. Apple really doesn't seem to bother much about them. As this has been said in other places of the forum already, this indifference to pirates leaves room for some speculation: Are they feeling safe because they think the final protection scheme will be very hard or tiresome to circumvent, or are they monitoring the piracy scene in order to pursue some basic market research on the appeal of Mac OS X to the average PC user?

 

yeah that's perfectly right, moral not legal. As if he wanted to make us feel bad, not really afraid. Just like some do with P2P music, talking about you're stealing artists, rather than talking about the legallity.

 

Then, I think your second option is more likely, plus, it's kinda like, we're doing beta testing for free and even developping drivers for free

[fishbert]

Stealing at one of it's more simple form is "Taking something that does not belong to you". The operating system provides a service(good computing experience). Apple the creator of this service charges for the operating system. Did you pay? I think it would help a little too for all you people who think that piracy does not in anyway hurt Apple and in fact helps them because the people pirating osx86 are helping Beta test. Here are some scenarios off the top of my head.

Guy1 install osx86 on his 200 dollar pc and is very impressed he shows off to Guy2 and avid mac fan who owns macs. Guy2 is not impressed by: the 200 dollar pc with OSX86 on it. Is it possible that Guy2 won't buy apples in the future thinking that OSX and Apple has sold out to cheap crappy pc with no easthetic value + quality builds? Maybe is it likely? i don't know but it is possible thats lost sales right there plus your hurting the name brand which is why Apple can charge what they do for their products. It's the whole experience.

Guy1 installs osx86 on his pc and is impressed shows off to his friends and family and they like it. They want to buy macs but decide to get Guy1 build your own pc guy to just build them a 200 dollar osx86pc cause its cheaper! It works just as good Itunes and Iphoto and Safari/firefox and Imail all standard apps and they won't have to worry about viruses anymore. Sure in the future these are potential customers but when is that future going to be? You just lost a cycle for Apple cause that machine is going to stay kicking for a long time that's OSX for you.

Well this is my favorite scenario: we have about 1800 posting users here of those 1800 users how many do you think are savvy enough to realize...that if they are using a standard deadmoo image they are running around with a compromised DOS bot? Now think about that for a second and realize thos are only posting users!!! How many more DOS bots are running around out there using standard deadmoo image that are not a member of this forum? I dont personally know how possible it is, and i don't pesonally know what kind of technical expertise would be involved in making the nightmare scenario come true but, if it does do you still think that you pirating OSX86 is good for apple?

There are more scenarios im sure. I don't want to offend anyone i just enjoy a good lively free exchange of ideas.

[bonehead]

Stealing at one of it's more simple form is "Taking something that does not belong to you". The operating system provides a service(good computing experience). Apple the creator of this service charges for the operating system. Did you pay? I think it would help a little too for all you people who think that piracy does not in anyway hurt Apple and in fact helps them because the people pirating osx86 are helping Beta test. Here are some scenarios off the top of my head....

 

The negative impact, if any, of piracy varies from company to company and product to product, and, as you've pointed out, Trojan to Trojan.

 

However, referring to casual piracy as "theft" or "stealing" is incorrect. In these cases it is "copyright infringement". That doesn't make piracy any more or less wrong, but it does call it what it is.

 

There are arguments on both sides of the fence. Windows wouldn't be where it is today if it hadn’t spread like wildfire via piracy in it's earlier days... however now that that they've reached market saturation, they see piracy as a horrid thing. Bands like "Metalica" (I use them as an example since they are so opposed to P2P networks) wouldn't have gained the popularity they enjoyed had it not been for bootlegs of their music.

 

On the flip side of that, if windows hadn't been so freely distributed in the start, other operating systems may have had a chance - especially in developing markets, like China.

[bofors]

With respect to Jobs' morality, I ran accross this tidbit last night:

 

1972: Jobs becomes one of the first 50 employees at Atari, under Atari founder Nolan K. Bushnell. Jobs later asks Woz for help in creating the sequel to the smash hit "Pong", entitled "Breakout". Jobs cheats Woz out of $5000.

http://www.pegasus3d.com/mac_timeline.html

 

Now while this the first time I have heard about Jobs actually stealling from Woz, and of course I really do not know wether this is in fact true, the rest of details on this page appear highly accurate.

 

Otherwise, it is well known that Jobs is serial plagiarist, he constantly takes credit for the ideas of others. In fact, this goes so far that he habitually first tries to convince the originator a good idea that the idea is bad and then comes back to claim he invented it himself.

 

http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?proje...e&detail=medium

 

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,61795,00.html

 

While in the rampant corruption that pervades American society, such behavior may be required to win the rat race, it is still theft and much more serious than pirating the content of filthy-rich corporate criminals as specific "little" people are hurt.

 

The bottom line is that with respect to morality Jobs is just another egocentric hypocrite.

[CFran]

With respect to Jobs' morality, I ran accross this tidbit last night:

 

http://www.pegasus3d.com/mac_timeline.html

 

Now while this the first time I have heard about Jobs actually stealling from Woz, and of course I really do not know wether this is in fact true, the rest of details on this page appear highly accurate.

 

Otherwise, it is well known that Jobs is serial plagiarist, he constantly takes credit for the ideas of others. In fact, this goes so far that he habitually first tries to convince the originator a good idea that the idea is bad and then comes back to claim he invented it himself.

 

http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?proje...e&detail=medium

 

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,61795,00.html

 

While in the rampant corruption that pervades American society, such behavior may be required to win the rat race, it is still theft and much more serious than pirating the content of filthy-rich corporate criminals as specific "little" people are hurt.

 

The bottom line is that with respect to morality Jobs is just another egocentric hypocrite.

 

Yeah, in a way, Steve Jobs is just like Napoleon in Animal Farm. Puts down Snowballs idea of a windmill, then kicks Snowball, and then builds a windmill and says it was his very own idea. Or maybe should i directly compare Steve Jobs to Joseph Stalin..

[Macdaddio]

Ok since wer'e all giving our theories, let me add mine. It's only a perceived difference by Apple that the hardware is the barrier to more sales. Joe Smith from down the road doesn't give a {censored} whether he has to buy a Mac from a Mac Store or online.??? If people wanted the GUI they would go get the thing at the appropriate place. It's the fact that no one has the OS. And what are they gonna do, put OSX computers in Staples or Best Buy or Circuit City?? Ohhhhh Kayyy, then why didnt they do that before.??? They did actually and no one bought them. Remember going into CompUSA in 96 and seeing Macs there? People dont buy it because it's not compatible with anything else. The problem used to be that they only made them for real Macs, so you couldn't just buy a cheapo chinaman pc and put the OS on. But the problem now is that even if they get people to put it on their pc because its cheap and easy to buy just the os for a homebuild pc or Dell or blah blah, Microsoft still exists. Why would I choose OSX, that only works on Intel, over Windows Vista which by the way kills OSX, and can be put on any x86 and the like, including older x86 and is compatible with them.

 

It seems to me that all Steve Jobs is doing is choosing a new architecture for his OS to run on, and will BE THE EXACT SAME COMPANY and sell THE EXACT SAME WAY he has in the past.

 

All he changed was the freaking chip. How do you know he won't only sell these only in Mac stores, just like before. You guys realize the only reason they actually moved to Intel was because IBM has a stale market ahead of them, and Apple needs powerful chips to compete with other OS's. That's the only reason they are doing this. Nothing will change. The company hasn't changed. Steve Jobs still sees things through rose colored glasses, never accepting that all people should be able to use it.

 

THINK ABOUT IT???? Why is he so addement on limiting the processors to Intel?? Exactly. It's stupid. No logic eh?? Same thing he did with IBM's processors.

 

Apple isn't changing.

 

As for Steve Jobs. He's a Budist? Yeah. He's a poser. He's not a Budist. He was a druggy. He's a recovered druggy. That doesn't make you a Budist or wise, that makes you a hippocrit.

 

Thanks. Have a nice day.

[mikesum32]

Dear people, please note the comment was out of context !

 

He was talking about the music industry.

 

You people need to lighten up and get a clue.

 

 

 

I posted a whole article with the test in bold !

[Takuro]

............................................

[mikesum32]

In addition to the test, I also typed the text. The test will be due at the end of class.

[blahsucks]

There is nothing "wrong" with "stealing" an OS that is not in stores and never will be. Sure, I suppose you could say that there is a Tiger in some stores, but can you run PPC Tiger on your PC? Would you call the people using Windows Vista leaks thieves?

 

We are not taking anything. Some of us are infringing on copyrights, but it's all copying. You see, in the world of digital piracy, nothing is taken. Everything is copied. People who wouldn't/couldn't pay for something in the first place are not causing any loss of profit (except for the folks who manage bandwidth, but that's a different story).

 

Incidentally: This is a response to the people saying OSx86 leaking is wrong, not Jobs.

[fishbert]

I think the fact that it isn't in stores does not make the "stealing" any less wrong. It is still wrong it is still stealing. Just because it is not sold in stores or ever will be does not mean that it won't cause loss of profit for Apple, nor does it mean that it does not cause "bad" things for Apple. I think what im trying to get at is: Don't try to justify the copy right infringement. Don't try to justify the Stealing. Don't try to say it's right. It is wrong, it is stealing, it is copy right infringement.

"People who wouldn't/couldn't pay for something in the first place are not causing any loss of profit." Umm what exactly do you define a loss of profit when someone "would have paid/could have paid" and didn't? I mean how is that not a loss of profit again? Are you saying that these people weren't going to buy macs anyways so they shouldn't be considered lost profits? So your saying that people can use a product created by some company for free because they "don't want to pay" or because "they can't pay" and that because they don't want to pay or couldn't pay it isn't considered loss of profit? Im a little grey on how that works out economically.

[bonehead]

Alrite, well that settles that. Thanx, Mike. Just another rumor

 

 

Arstechnica is the only site I found that shows the "If they want to raise the prices, it means that they are getting greedy" and "theft is bad" quotes in the same context. In fact, if you read the source link they provide (try it a few times if it says the article in unavailable), it doesn’t show the "theft is bad/burn in hell" quotes at all.

 

It would be nice to have the complete context of both quotes in a full transcript, but that seems unavailable.

[Macdaddio]

I still don't like the guy. Never did. He acts like some sort of prophet for the new world order of computing, and then charges 2700 dollars for a G5 that gets spanked by a $650 PC. He's not for the people, he's for lining his pockets, and for providing the elite class of wealthy people a cool computer, and forgeting everyone else.

 

PS -------> Real Budists don't believe in hell. lol.

 

[bofors]

He was talking about the music industry.

 

So what?

 

Either way, it seems pretty clear to me who should burn in hell...

 

http://www.theregister.com/2004/02/01/doub...or_kids_caught/

 

Apple/Pepsi 2004 SuperBowl Commercial

 

"Fight Back" Parody

 

EDIT: I was looking for Brian Flemming's "Don't Think Different" video critism of the Pepsi/Apple commercial but could not find it until now:

 

"Don't Think Different"

 

(scroll down a little)

[johnniecarcinogen]

I forgot about that. Steve Jobs doesn't allow his kids to drink soda or watch TV but he forced these kids to do this commercial for his own corporate benefit.

 

21 years ago Stevie would have said IBM should burn in hell now he is the devil's advocate.

 

Sharing is caring; {censored} the RIAA, Apple, and Steve Jobs.

 

EDIT: I downloaded an album today on itunes that i owned on CD once but lost. When i activated the song to play on my machine, itunes told me that 3 of my alotted 5 machines are used up. I just downloaded this doodle where are these other machines? What do they label this machine as? Do they think i will have these songs on my ipod forever or keep this hard drive forever? I may have the hard drive for a while but i know i'll format it many many times.

 

I paid for this album twice in my life and I think I have the right to aquire these songs again in the future if i lose them. They can never prove that someone never paid for anything in the past that they say was obtained, in their words, "illegally". This is why they su defenseless children and idiot types, in other words they milk the people who trust them.

 

Apple is accusing the RIAA of getting greedy? Just because they want more of a percentage doesn't mean apple has to raise thier itunes prices, especially when they probably {censored} the non-tech user through itunes every chance they get. The same way they do to artist types with their macs.

 

It is clear to me who should burn in hell too.

[Pnutster]

So what?

 

Either way, it seems pretty clear to me who should burn in hell...

 

http://www.theregister.com/2004/02/01/doub...or_kids_caught/

 

http://nmc.siu.edu/~pepsi/Pepsi_Original.html

 

http://nmc.siu.edu/~pepsi/Pepsi_Large.html

EDIT: I was looking for Brian Flemming's "Don't Think Different" video critism of the Pepsi/Apple commercial but could not find it until now:

 

http://www.slumdance.com/blogs/brian_flemm...ves/000610.html

 

(scroll down a little)

 

Hpppmmmffff,

 

After seeing all this I'd really wish Linus Thorvald would rise and start up a new little computing company that would give 'Thinking Different" a new life. Apple has become what they fought, a biggo money sucking machine all in for the money and totally ruthless and without moral.

 

I can't seem to forget about that pirat-flag the Macintosh team used to have...