[Guide] HP DV8, DV7, DV6, & DV5, 10.6.4 Easy, Comprehensive Installation

[Lazar Blazer]

Thank you,

 

Now I know which one to use.

[oSxFr33k]

Mammoth,

 

Do you have Sleep/Shutdown/Restart mods in the DSDT and actually working or not?

 

There is a fix in the DSDT for this but not sure if it will work on the HP DV8t QUad core or not?

 

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=190780

 

Are you able to get Vanilla PowerManagement to work properly? Both P and C states?

 

Can you post your kernel.log? I want to see if you have the message in the kernel log:

 

ACPI_SMC_PlatformPlugin::registerLPCDriver - WARNING - LPC device initialization failed: C-state power management not initialized

 

If so then CST is not working. CAn you check your Ioreg to see if _CST listed?

 

Here is a great application to get your Ioreg read in Gui.

 

http://www.osx86.es/?cat=21

 

There is a new Chameleon thread by Mojodojo that will load your Vanilla SSDT tables extracted from either a non DSDT override system or extracted using an Ubuntu Live CD.

 

Here is that thread:

 

http://www.projectosx.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1337

 

 

There is also another thread on the new FakeSMC with Monitoring Support:

 

http://www.projectosx.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1206

 

I have a Dell XPS M1530 and looking into getting a HP DV8t QUad core with 8GB ram.

 

I probably won't do the Airport hack right away and just use a USB Network adaptor for now.

 

How does the eSATA shared USB port work? Is it recognized as SATA in SNow Leopard?

 

The eSATA feature is a must for me. If the MacBook Pro's had them I would have bought one by now. The third generation of MacBook Pro's Unibody's make it easier to switch hard drives as compared to the first generation ones.

 

Anyhow I like to switch out drives quickly and with eSATA I would not have to do that so this feature is vital for me.

 

Thanks

[Mammoth]

Hi Mamooth,

 

sorry to bother you. i forgot to clone the hard disk from dv8t before installing osx. i got the system restore discs from hp and also created the restore discs from the machine. can i use them to install on the windows 7 partition on this hacked machine. i tried to do it last night, it said it is going to wipe the entire hard-disk (formatting) as part of restore. do you think i need to start from beginning. reformat the entire disks, put the windows 7 like the one came from factory using the system restore discs. thanks for your help.

 

-Silica

 

Hello Silica,

 

Sorry for the late reply, I've been either crazy busy or not had Internet access.

 

You can't take the image off the restore disc, so normally you would have to wipe and restore, then make the Windows 7 from that image.

 

What you COULD do it put in another hard drive you can wipe, then use the restore discs on it, make your Windows 7 image from that, then put back in your drive with OS X on it and restore the Windows 7 to that.

 

 

 

 

Does it really matter which boot CD I use?

 

I have the dv7-tx and I'm wondering if I should use the the normal or experimental boot CD. Shoild I use the Mammoth DVx Boot CD because I have a DV7, is that what the DV 'x' means?

 

 

You should be able to use the Current version of the Mammoth Boot CD on your machine.

 

Mammoth,

 

Do you have Sleep/Shutdown/Restart mods in the DSDT and actually working or not?

 

There is a fix in the DSDT for this but not sure if it will work on the HP DV8t QUad core or not?

 

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=190780

 

Are you able to get Vanilla PowerManagement to work properly? Both P and C states?

 

Can you post your kernel.log? I want to see if you have the message in the kernel log:

 

ACPI_SMC_PlatformPlugin::registerLPCDriver - WARNING - LPC device initialization failed: C-state power management not initialized

 

If so then CST is not working. CAn you check your Ioreg to see if _CST listed?

 

Here is a great application to get your Ioreg read in Gui.

 

http://www.osx86.es/?cat=21

 

There is a new Chameleon thread by Mojodojo that will load your Vanilla SSDT tables extracted from either a non DSDT override system or extracted using an Ubuntu Live CD.

 

Here is that thread:

 

http://www.projectosx.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1337

 

 

There is also another thread on the new FakeSMC with Monitoring Support:

 

http://www.projectosx.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1206

 

I have a Dell XPS M1530 and looking into getting a HP DV8t QUad core with 8GB ram.

 

I probably won't do the Airport hack right away and just use a USB Network adaptor for now.

 

How does the eSATA shared USB port work? Is it recognized as SATA in SNow Leopard?

 

The eSATA feature is a must for me. If the MacBook Pro's had them I would have bought one by now. The third generation of MacBook Pro's Unibody's make it easier to switch hard drives as compared to the first generation ones.

 

Anyhow I like to switch out drives quickly and with eSATA I would not have to do that so this feature is vital for me.

 

Thanks

 

Hey there oSxFr33k!

 

Really great info; thanks for sharing. I'm on vaction 'til Aug 9, so I'm not able to check any of this out, but when I get back I will, and then well check/test and give you the answers.

 

I haven't tried the e-SATA port, but it is important for me to get it to work too, and I'm sure we can. : ) I think we just need the correct kext loaded. For all I know it's already working.

 

I DO know the combo USB port in it does work.

 

 

 

UPDATE ON Post-installation Upgrade Guide

 

Hey everyone,

 

As you probably gathered from previous posts, I'm currently on vacation right now. I tried to get the guide finished beforehand, but ran into some problems (and in the process ended up borking my DV8t install of OS X). So I have a nice little mess to clean-up when I get back.

 

So the guide is still coming, and still with a nice surprise if I can get everything working the way I want, it's just delayed.

 

I'll be working again on it Aug 10, so don't look for it to be done before then.

 

Sorry, but it will be worth it when it's done. I want it to be as clean and problem free as the other guides, and sometimes it takes a lot of extra work and time to get to that point.

 

I'll let you know when it's done!

[Lazar Blazer]

I have manged to install sl to my senond HDD, now i get the dreaded "SerialATAPI device reconfiguration did not complete successfully. (failedCommandInfo = 0x1)" it appears about four times beffore chaning to "waiting for boot device". Ive tried the cpus=1 and the busratio=12 commands.

 

Help would be aprreciated.

[Mammoth]

I have manged to install sl to my senond HDD, now i get the dreaded "SerialATAPI device reconfiguration did not complete successfully. (failedCommandInfo = 0x1)" it appears about four times beffore chaning to "waiting for boot device". Ive tried the cpus=1 and the busratio=12 commands.

 

Help would be aprreciated.

 

What machine do you have?

[Lazar Blazer]

Its a HP Pavillion DV7 1211tx

specs here:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/documen...product=3893469

 

Strangely I manged to get into SL by removing the boot cd at the chameleon loader and replacing it with SL install disc, its the only way to boot into SL for some reason. Can it be a kext related issue?

[silica]

anyone experienced kernel panic when the battery is very low state. i saw this kp many times when my battery was very low and in charging mode also. it comes from voodoobattery kext 1.3.3. i saw the same from some other thread also. i am using kokomal 64bit kernel but i didn't remove AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement.kext. i only removed AppleProfileFamily.kext. i will remove the AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement.kext and see if this goes away.

 

http://uphuck.ggrn.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=12679

 

kernel panic1 - very low battery and not charging

 

Kernel Panic when battery is very low

 

 

kernel panic2 - very low battery and charging, during restart.

 

during restart, charging state

 

Update1 (08/10/2010):

 

i drained the battery to very low like before and emoved AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement.kext, now i don't see the VoodooBattery kernel panics. looks like if you are using kokomal 64 bit kernel on dv8t then you need remove those two kext mentioned in the link.

 

i feel like the laptop is much cooler tafter removing the AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement,

with AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement the cpu temp was around 63-66 F.

without AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement the cpu temp is around 56-58 F

 

Update 2 (08/11/2010):

I saw kernel panic again today when the battery was very low and connected the power cable to laptop. coming from VoodooBattery kext (same stack). not sure what it is related to. maybe i should i try the voodoo mini kext.

[in_love]

Hello Mammoth,

I'm using DV6 that has the same specification as your computer. In my computer, there is already Windows 7. I followed your guide, erased partition for MAC but when I wanted to install SL, it said I have to repartition to GUID partition. I don't want to lost current Windows and Recovery partition. Do you know any other way to install SL without repartition whole hard disk?

 

Thank you very much.

[kizwan]

Hello Mammoth,

I'm using DV6 that has the same specification as your computer. In my computer, there is already Windows 7. I followed your guide, erased partition for MAC but when I wanted to install SL, it said I have to repartition to GUID partition. I don't want to lost current Windows and Recovery partition. Do you know any other way to install SL without repartition whole hard disk?

 

Thank you very much.

You have a couple of options to install SL without losing Windows & Recovery partition.

1) Put another blank HDD & install SL on it. A bit inconvenient because you will need to swap the HDD if you want to boot to windows.

2) Install SL on the external HDD (firewire or USB external HDD). Then boot with SL installer DVD, open Disk Utility & restore the SL partition from the external to internal HDD.

 

or you can just visit this website for more information.

[oSxFr33k]

Mammoth,

 

Can you do me a favor and cat you kernel.log. I want to see if you have any messages concerning powermanagement?

 

Especially this message:

 

 

ACPI_SMC_PlatformPlugin::registerLPCDriver - WARNING - LPC device initialization failed: C-state power management not initialized

 

 

 

You probably know the command but in just in case, in a terminal window type this:

 

cat /var/log/kernel.log > /users/<YourMacUserName>/Desktop/kernel.txt

 

 

replace <YourMacUserName> with the user name that you log in with or thats in the finder window.

 

Can you attach it so I can view it. I am looking into buying the dvd8T quad core.

 

WHich Chameleon are you using now?

 

Thanks

[in_love]

You have a couple of options to install SL without losing Windows & Recovery partition.

1) Put another blank HDD & install SL on it. A bit inconvenient because you will need to swap the HDD if you want to boot to windows.

2) Install SL on the external HDD (firewire or USB external HDD). Then boot with SL installer DVD, open Disk Utility & restore the SL partition from the external to internal HDD.

 

or you can just visit this website for more information.

 

Thank you very much for your information, Kizwa.

I follow your second instruction but it still said that I have to repartition my to GUID partition if I want to install SL.

[kizwan]

Thank you very much for your information, Kizwa.

I follow your second instruction but it still said that I have to repartition my to GUID partition if I want to install SL.

Yes, it is a requirement to install SL. I'm suggesting you to partition the external HDD to GUID & install SL to it. Then use Disk Utility (boot with the SL installer DVD) & restore the SL partition from the external HDD to the partition at the internal HDD. This way you can maintain the MBR partition at internal HDD.

 

You can install SL to MBR partition but you will need to replaced the OSInstall.mpkg file in the SL installer DVD. The original OSinstall.mpkg that came with the SL installer DVD only allow SL installation to GUID partition. The link I posted earlier explained where you can obtain the OSinstall.mpkg file for MBR partition. It also explain where & how to replaced the file. The trick is you need to restore the SL installer DVD image to a partition at your external HDD. This will make your external HDD as your installer media. You just need to prepare a partition, at least 8GB. This way you will have read-write permission to the installer media, therefore you can replaced the original OSinstall.mpkg with the patched one.

 

I have an external HDD (partitioned to GUID) where it have five partition (including the EFI partition):-

1) EFI partition which will be automatically created when partitioned HDD to GUID. It also a hidden partition. I use it as a boot partition. Installed chameleon & necessary extra kexts there.

2) SL installer partition. I use restore function in Disk Utility to restore SL installer DVD image (.dmg or .iso) to this partition. It will be SL installer media. Installation will be much faster.

3) Installed SL in this partition. Can be useful for testing & for emergency.

4) FAT32 partition

5) NTFS partition

[in_love]

Thank you very much, kizwan. I will try again

[Mammoth]

anyone experienced kernel panic when the battery is very low state?

 

I haven't noticed this but that's because I have never had the battery that low. If I ever do experience this, I will let everyone know.

 

Have you had any updates on this?

 

How does the eSATA shared USB port work? Is it recognized as SATA in SNow Leopard?

 

The eSATA feature is a must for me. If the MacBook Pro's had them I would have bought one by now. The third generation of MacBook Pro's Unibody's make it easier to switch hard drives as compared to the first generation ones.

 

Anyhow I like to switch out drives quickly and with eSATA I would not have to do that so this feature is vital for me.

 

Thanks

 

Sorry oSxFr33k for the very delayed response. I simply have not been able to do anything with OS X for the last month, but I am getting ready to finally post the v1.15 Installation Update guide, so now I am able to catch up on a few things.

 

I just tested the eSATA port on my DV8t and it works perfectly! So does the combo USB port.

[Mammoth]

Hello Everybody!

 

My computer is a DV5 1199ef.

 

So I follow this HOW TO and it's work!

After the combo update I load my DSDT and modify it with the help of the MacBookPro18 Project.

 

And most of the components works. Like Webcam, all the USB...

 

So, here is my DSDT for people who have a HP DV5.

 

So I have some bugs:

 

1) I can't load the TrackPad preferences.

 

2) Each time I modify the /Cham/Extra/Extensions folder, and even when I update de Extensions.mkext I have a problem on boot: " AppleRTL8169Ethernet: phyWaitForAutoNegotiation TIMEOUT"

 

And I've a freeze.

 

EDIT: It seems that the bug is because of the DSMOS,

I've got "searching for DSMOS"

But I haven't "DSMOS has arrived" when I edit /C/E/E

 

Do you have any fix for this?

 

Ps: Sorry for my english :s

 

 

Hi there,

 

I am about to post a Post-installation Update Guide, which will fix many of these issues!

 

; )

 

Hi Mac Man 50,

 

This is the new modified DSDT for you (R2). Based on your ioreg dump, your graphic card is located at Device (P0P2) --> Device (VGA). I don't know why ioreg dump obtain by Mammoth is different. Can you confirmed that both of you are using the same BIOS version/release? Also I noticed the DSDT posted by Mammoth in DSDT Patcher forum is different than yours & the one from Mammoth Boot CD. I use raw DSDT from Mammoth post in DSDT Patcher forum to create this modified DSDT assuming both of you have identical BIOS version/release.

http://www.mediafire.com/?e207npm7sddo7dh

In the compress file, you will see three folder:-

1) Original DSDT

- This is original DSDT for DV8T. This one was given to me by Mammoth in "DSDT Patcher" thread.

2) Modified DSDT

- This is modified DSDT with CMOS Reset Fix, USB EHCI Sleep Fix, HDEF Fix, GFX Fix

3) DSDT_Patcher1.0.1e

- This is the final modified DSDT.

 

Please test it (use the final modified DSDT) & make sure these conditions are met to make sure correct result:-

- No other graphic card injector kext installed

- Boot with GraphicsEnabler=No

 

Please post the result with ioreg dump using IORegistryExplorer.

 

If it does not work, please post your raw DSDT taken in windows using Everest. Just right-click at the bottom status bar at Everest window & select ACPI Tool. Click Save DSDT to dump your DSDT to a file.

 

Hello Kizwan (and all),

 

I am on the verge of releasing the Post-installation Update Guide and am going through the entire thread so I can collect and produce a list of all outstanding issues.

 

One I just came across is that our headphone jacks are not working at all: no sound output and plugging in does not mute the laptop speakers.

 

Do you think this is something that can be fixed?

[Mammoth]

* UPDATE * - 2010-08-24 - 12:50 AM GMT -8:00

 

NEW! - Post-installation Update Guide v1.15

NEW! - Mammoth DVxt Boot CD v1.15

 

At long last, I finally got the Post-installation Update Guide done PLUS the surprise I had been mentioning, which is a new v1.15 Boot CD!

 

The new CD is loaded with stuff, plus it can be used in place of the v1.10 Boot CD to install using the existing v1.10 Installation Guides.

 

The primary purpose however for the new v1.15 CD is for use with the new Post-installation Update Guide and the Post-installation Update Guide is a compilation of all current fixes and updates to date for running OS X 10.6.4.

 

This was a VERY difficult process and there are some things we need to work on so PLEASE if you could post info about the update on your machine and how it goes. Please post about any issues you may have, and if there have been any advancements I am not aware of and are not in the new guide, please let me know!

 

THANKS!

[Mammoth]

Hey everyone,

 

For those who will (or already have), used the Post-installation Upgrade Guide, I want you to know that my install has been 100% stable. This is by doing as I outlined in the Disclaimer section; I put back AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement.kext and I'm using the alternate smbios.plist. Even going in Windows 7 and back to OS X is fine now (AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement.kext is a must).

 

The result is I have the infrequent audio popping, but my system is 100% stable. My several hour install of FinalCut Studio 3 completed fine, and I have been using the machine for several hours today (and am using it to post this). I have connected a new external hard drive I just put my entire music library on, configured iTunes, and am playing a-ha's Memorial Beach right now (in case you wanted to know

 

So I want to see if I can get rid of the popping sound, and if so, I will be pretty happy. : )

 

So don't be afraid to to go through with the update, it works great!

[kizwan]

Hello Kizwan (and all),

 

I am on the verge of releasing the Post-installation Update Guide and am going through the entire thread so I can collect and produce a list of all outstanding issues.

 

One I just came across is that our headphone jacks are not working at all: no sound output and plugging in does not mute the laptop speakers.

 

Do you think this is something that can be fixed?

This depend on the audio codec. Honestly I haven't look into the IDT audio codec yet since my Studio 1557 which have IDT sound card have ATI mobility on it. I spent too much of my time to get the ATI mobility working than the audio itself. I know ATI mobility (on notebook) is not supported by Mac OS X. I bought it because the design, excellent warranty cover (the engineer come to my place to change the motherboard for me!) & the CPU. I'll try working on the sound as soon as possible (since I already managed to get correct resolution but no QE/CI).

[Mammoth]

This depend on the audio codec. Honestly I haven't look into the IDT audio codec yet since my Studio 1557 which have IDT sound card have ATI mobility on it. I spent too much of my time to get the ATI mobility working than the audio itself.

 

I know ATI mobility (on notebook) is not supported by Mac OS X. I bought it because the design, excellent warranty cover (the engineer come to my place to change the motherboard for me!) & the CPU. I'll try working on the sound as soon as possible (since I already managed to get correct resolution but no QE/CI).

 

Wow that sucks Kizwan! You haven't been able to get QE/CI working on your 1557 still? Sorry to hear that. : (

That reminds me of when I started out with that crappy Sony Vaio VPCF115FM! It was "nice", had a "nice design" and all, but video would not work because of Sony's proprietary (and crappy) design! I am SO glad I dumped it on eBay and got this DV8t. I wish you could do the same. : (

 

Thanks again for all of your AMAZING work! So many of us have this great happiness because of you!

 

I don't know if you've had a chance to look at my new Post-installation Update Guide yet, but towards the end I listed all the remaining issues with the DVxt. I'm going to add them to the first post soon so we can all start working to resolve as many as possible.

 

THANKS KIZWAN!

 

There is a new Pre-release of Chameleon, RC5 - build r193 and here is one of its benefits:

 

• Latest bootloader now supports vanilla power management (a.k.a. speedstep) - Thanks to Mozodojo

 

You can read more about it here:

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php...=180954&hl=

 

We need to figure out how to use this with our DVxt systems, then eventually I would like to incorporate it into the future v1.20 Mammoth DVxt Boot CD.

 

 

For those who want to work on P-State (SpeedStep, etc) here is an excellent resource from the man, BlackOSX:

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php...p;#entry1334977

[extraspeed]

Hello,

 

I have an issue that I'm trying to fix and I would like to know if any of you guys have the same. Eventually I'll figure it out but for now I hit rock bottom. I have 4 cores/ 8 threads working flawlessly but when I use a processor pane tool (From Xcode) there is seem to be a missing info, as you can see in the image below. Does anyone knows how to fix it? I'm using Chameleon 2. rc5 to boot up.

 

 

 

Thank in advance.

[jy371]

Thank you, Mammoth.

 

I use your Boot CD 1.15 to install OSX on my DV7-3085DX and everything works as you described.

 

It is easy to follow your instructions and no panics. 6G RAM and eSATA port work with 1.15 kexts and Kokomal kernel. Moreover, I can use the remote control with Frontseat.

[Dragonsoul81]

Hi Mammoth and you guys.

Big THANKS to you for the tutorial and all the work you did put in this.

Managed to get a dv6 2150eg fully running with sound, graphics webcam, even the funny remote.

I have a question though and a big problem...

 

All 8 cores are showing up but there´s only one working and the system seems unstable and freezes randomly.

Any ideas??

Didn´t see anything mentioned in the guide and couldn´t find much info on the issue.

Geekbench shows 2048...which is pretty scary actually.

 

I need advice on that one.

Any help is highly appreciated-pleeeaaaasee :-)

Thanks a lot.

Have a nice day.

[Mammoth]

Thank you, Mammoth.

 

I use your Boot CD 1.15 to install OSX on my DV7-3085DX and everything works as you described.

 

It is easy to follow your instructions and no panics. 6G RAM and eSATA port work with 1.15 kexts and Kokomal kernel. Moreover, I can use the remote control with Frontseat.

 

 

Hello JY371!

 

Thanks for taking the time to let us all know how well the guides worked for you! I go through all of my docs multiple times to test and make sure everything works before I realease them. I wish more people would do that; just a quick thanks like yours makes all my hard work really worth it.

 

Your remote works? That is very interesting. I have never heard of it working for anyone else. I just tried mine and it doesn't work for me. Did you have to add anything to your OS X install to allow it to work? Is this the little flat remote that can fit into the PCI Express card slot or is this the TV Tunner remote?

 

Is there anyone else out there the remote works for?

 

Great to have you with us JY371!

[Dragonsoul81]

Hello JY371!

 

Thanks for taking the time to let us all know how well the guides worked for you! I go through all of my docs multiple times to test and make sure everything works before I realease them. I wish more people would do that; just a quick thanks like yours makes all my hard work really worth it.

 

Your remote works? That is very interesting. I have never heard of it working for anyone else. I just tried mine and it doesn't work for me. Did you have to add anything to your OS X install to allow it to work? Is this the little flat remote that can fit into the PCI Express card slot or is this the TV Tunner remote?

 

Is there anyone else out there the remote works for?

 

Great to have you with us JY371!

 

The little flat remote here is working with frontseat on a Dv6 2150eg.

 

btw...i posted earlier about the 8 cores not working on my i7 after following your guide.

I managed to get all cores working with cpus=8 bootflag but still do get random freezes from time to time..between 10-30 min. :-(

anyway...thx again for the great guide.

[Mammoth]

Hi Mammoth and you guys.

Big THANKS to you for the tutorial and all the work you did put in this.

Managed to get a dv6 2150eg fully running with sound, graphics webcam, even the funny remote.

I have a question though and a big problem...

 

All 8 cores are showing up but there´s only one working and the system seems unstable and freezes randomly.

Any ideas??

Didn´t see anything mentioned in the guide and couldn´t find much info on the issue.

Geekbench shows 2048...which is pretty scary actually.

 

I need advice on that one.

Any help is highly appreciated-pleeeaaaasee :-)

Thanks a lot.

Have a nice day.

 

Hi Dragonsoul81,

 

Thanks for the kind words! I'm really pleased I took the time to document my procedure, not only for myself, but it great to be able to help others! : )

 

On your CPU cores issue, you may have taken a wrong turn somewhere. Many others have been able to get everything working, so I'm sure you can too.

 

Have you used the Update guide v1.15 yet? I assume you have, but I'm asking just in case.

 

BIOS, permissions, SMBIOS.plist, and DSDT.aml issues, can all cause random KPs. First, try doing a PFix on / (root), then right after that do a Permissions Disk Repair with Disk Utility.

 

If the above doesn't fix the problem, you could try installing clean using v1.10 of the guides, then follow up with the Update v1.15 guide.

 

If you have your system all setup the way you like, the way I would proceed to test is to swapout and install onto another hard drive (if you have one). You could also backup your system and then reinstall.

 

So long as you follow the guides exactly, unless there is a hardware issue with your machine (which I doubt), then it pretty much has to work.

 

 

 

The little flat remote here is working with frontseat on a Dv6 2150eg.

 

btw...i posted earlier about the 8 cores not working on my i7 after following your guide.

I managed to get all cores working with cpus=8 bootflag but still do get random freezes from time to time..between 10-30 min. :-(

anyway...thx again for the great guide.

 

Hmmm. OK, yeah I saw you mentioned the remote working before too; I missed that. Interesting. I wonder why it doesn't work for me?

 

And I think we are talking about Front Row not "Frontseat". ; )