Windows Vista

[pyrates]

^^Hit the nail on the head. The catch-22 is the server market. OS X is more secure, and more stable, but it's performance really hurts on a server that sees substantial bandwidth usage. Windows, on the other hand, works very well, but just look at netcraft statistics, servers running Windows server are often getting rebooted, and the charts are all over the place as to how often.

 

As for Linux, Linux works ok for servers i guess. The real goods that I see for servers right now lies in Solaris 9/10. Solaris requires very few updates, a great OS structure, and can update without a reboot. Solaris has many of the goodies needed for a server, and is an all around great server.

 

Just for the hell of it, I'm going to list where I thing each OS specifically shines (Just an objective opinion):

Windows - All around home desktop use/gaming/CPU intensive processes

OS X - All around home desktop use/creative applications and design/professional media creation

Linux - Free alternative/basic home use/great community driven software base

FreeBSD - Home dedicated firewall box

Solaris - Servers, servers, and more servers

 

I think Linux is great for a server OS. I use it quite a bit. So is freebsd.

I can use Windows to do media creation. For example, I can use Adobe Audition for Windows, which their is no such app for OS X that is equivalent to it. There is also avisynth for windows which allows for all sorts of audio/video encoding with.

FreeBSD may be good to use for a firewall box, but I like smoothwall more. It is easy to install and setup. Plus is expandable as well with all sorts of plugins for it. You should check it out sometime.

[EFI]

...I can use Adobe Audition for Windows, which their is no such app for OS X that is equivalent to it. There is also avisynth for windows which allows for all sorts of audio/video encoding with.

 

Actually Apple's Logic Pro is much more advanced than Adobe's Audition, so yes, there is no equivalent to it. Also for Avisinth, there is Adobe After Effects...whic is ok, or Apple's Final Cut Pro, which is much, much more advanced than AviSynth, so again your right, there is no equivalent to it.

 

Plus doesn't Adobe's new Soundbooth CS3 (Which is avaliable for OS X as well as Windows) more or less replace Audition 2.0? I think its just a matter of time before they discontinue Audition, but I dunno, it *might* happen...just my thought.

[apowerr]

I can use Windows to do media creation. For example, I can use Adobe Audition for Windows, which their is no such app for OS X that is equivalent to it. There is also avisynth for windows which allows for all sorts of audio/video encoding with.

 

You cant really argue that PC has more professional creative applications than Mac. Sure most Mac programs have a PC equivalent, but it doesnt work both ways.. Most professional w/e studios have at least 1 Mac. ILM is almost all Mac. There are exceptions, the acclaimed 3dsmax is PC only . Either way, the fact is that everything (creative) PC can do Mac can do better!

( For the record im not Windows bashing, just stating the truth, I actually prefer Windows.

[track09]

Plus doesn't Adobe's new Soundbooth CS3 (Which is avaliable for OS X as well as Windows) more or less replace Audition 2.0? I think its just a matter of time before they discontinue Audition, but I dunno, it *might* happen...just my thought.

 

 

Soundbooth is going to replace Audition. Audition was something adobe bought from another company, and brought to their name. The app was so heavily tied to the old audio stack, that Adobe scrapped it and started anew.

[robotskip]

*BSD > Linux > Windows > Mac OS

 

That's my preference with servers but I would almost -never- bother with Mac OS because it requires me buying Mac(s) which is bad enough for a desktop PC but I could never consider it for a server (For various reasons). I'm sure they're solid servers, just not the right choice for me and probably most others.

 

Thank goodness there is an intelligent discussion for once without the usual people accusing me, track09 and others of being fanboys. Thank you EFI and others.

[pyrates]

Actually Apple's Logic Pro is much more advanced than Adobe's Audition, so yes, there is no equivalent to it.

 

Then explain why the net's most popular netcaster, Leo Laporte uses Adobe Audition for all his audio netcasts. And he likes mac himself. But when it comes to using what is most useful, he will use windows if it is better for what he's doing.

 

Also for Avisinth, there is Adobe After Effects...whic is ok, or Apple's Final Cut Pro, which is much, much more advanced than AviSynth, so again your right, there is no equivalent to it.

 

Avisynth is used for 99% of the tv rips, movie encodes, released onto the net. For scriptability, avisynth is much more powerful then any other video editing app out there allowing you to uncompress each frame of a video source just before it encodes to have the maximum quality without having to actually uncompress the entire video all at once. There is tons of plugins for it allowing you to clean up the video, remove scratches, do deep analyzing in order to deinterlace the video into progressive frames. Eliminating duplicate frames to reduce the framerate to 24p. There is plug ins for every imaginable feature you can think of. Even doing green screening with it people are trying to do. It's really quite amazing.

 

There is also the x264 encoder, which is the best h.264 encoder out there. Better then quicktimes implementation because it supports high profile and not just main profile. Now it is available for windows, linux and mac. Avisynth is in the process of being ported to linux. But there is no such port planned for OS X.

 

Plus doesn't Adobe's new Soundbooth CS3 (Which is avaliable for OS X as well as Windows) more or less replace Audition 2.0? I think its just a matter of time before they discontinue Audition, but I dunno, it *might* happen...just my thought.

 

I know the company that was bought. It was cool edit. But the main reason for using adobe audition is that it can take 16 tracks of audio coming in through a firewire connection and capture it in real time. The real limit for it is 80 live inputs. This is the strength of it and garage band can't do this. Hence why Leo Laporte uses Adobe Audition for Windows. It's what works for him. But it does look like adobe soundbooth cs3 could replace it. But from what audition does now, it does a great job.

[EFI]

which is bad enough for a desktop PC...

 

Thats a little to Microsoftish sounding dont ya think? I mean common, I wont bash you on this one...*controlling self*, but how can you say that its bad enough for a desktop PC. Assuming if you got a free Mac...would you still be able to justify your reasoning?

 

This is the strength of it and garage band can't do this. Hence why Leo Laporte uses Adobe Audition for Windows.

 

I understand where your coming from, its probably a personal preference, or maybe he doesnt want to try out Logic Pro, who knows? But you cant compare Garageband with Audition. Thats like comparing Microsoft Paint to Photoshop CS3 (well, not that extreme, but you get the point). Its not an equal comparson at all mate.

[apowerr]

From EFI's sig:

15" Macbook Pro | Intel C2D 2.33Ghz | 2Gb Corsair DDR2 PC2-5300 | ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 256MB | 160Gb 5400rpm | DL 8X DVD+-RW Super Drive | OS X 10.4.9 | Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR | Backlit Keyboard | Klipsch Promedia 5.1 THX Surround System

Damn, I envy you! Right now the Macbook/Macbook pro is probably my most desired laptop, of course Id dual boot between OS X and Vista, but they still have terrific hardware! What makes me sad is that once DX 10 cards come out for laptops, I'll never want to get a mac

[EFI]

From EFI's sig:

 

Damn, I envy you! Right now the Macbook/Macbook pro is probably my most desired laptop, of course Id dual boot between OS X and Vista, but they still have terrific hardware! What makes me sad is that once DX 10 cards come out for laptops, I'll never want to get a mac

 

Lol, thanks mate. I'm pretty sure once the Dx10 laptop cards start rolling out, you'll start seeing the Mobility Radeon X2600 or something in that range appear on Macbook Pros

[OryHara]

From EFI's sig:

 

Damn, I envy you! Right now the Macbook/Macbook pro is probably my most desired laptop, of course Id dual boot between OS X and Vista,

 

What is this "reboot" action you speak of?

 

 

jd@ns:~> uname -a

Linux ns 2.4.23 #6 Sat Nov 29 22:47:03 PST 2003 i686 unknown unknown GNU/Linux

jd@ns:~> uptime

08:31:57 up 279 days, 23:37, 2 users, load average: 4.59, 1.49, 0.73

jd@ns:~>

[Torqu3]

even though i think mac is better than vista, vista seems to be an okay. Since Leopard will be able to use bot camp with Vista, Mac will be able to make Vista look better than what it is.

[robotskip]

Thats a little to Microsoftish sounding dont ya think? I mean common, I wont bash you on this one...*controlling self*, but how can you say that its bad enough for a desktop PC. Assuming if you got a free Mac...would you still be able to justify your reasoning?

Err, it has nothing to do with Microsoft, I was talking about hardware (Please tell me how Microsoft is involved in my hardware purchases, please) which was pretty darn obvious. Also, if I got a free Mac, well, that's just a stupid thing to throw into the discussion, of course if I got free hardware it would be better than buying hardware.

 

I don't like buying Apple hardware because of upgrade problems, lack of choices, high price, quality issues, etc. For many people, like myself, Apple hardware isn't a good choice, in fact, it's a ridiculous choice.

 

Out of curiosity, who does buy Apple servers ? Like, anyone know of any major companies or something ?

[EFI]

I don't like buying Apple hardware because of upgrade problems, lack of choices, high price, quality issues, etc. For many people, like myself, Apple hardware isn't a good choice, in fact, it's a ridiculous choice.

 

Macs are not intented for gaming, if thats what your solely basing your pathetic "upgrade problems" argument on, just like PC's are not intented for creative digital work. When there are 13 different selections with different avaliable configurations...saying that there is a lack of choices..especially when a few of them have extremely high end hardware options...is just plain ignorant on your part. Sure there arent that 1billion choices you have with PC's...but thats the same thing why Windows is bashed for, because of the crappy hardware support (especially on Vista). Quality Issues? Apple has THE best quality control and best designed hardware out there. That being said, no one is perfect, and there was that heat and whine issue...which was fixed about a year go. So again...if you are using an age old argument as your sole justification...your just downright uninformed. Dell has the most hardware problems, as does Acer, and Gateway, Hp, and the others. Dont talk as if they are perfect, or have less quality controll problems than Apple...when infact they have tons more issues. The pricing argument as also been time and time again been busted. If you were to configure an exact same machine from Dell, Hp or others...like exact Apple always comes out cheaper. If you want me to prove this to you..just say so, Ill do it gladly.

 

Out of curiosity, who does buy Apple servers ? Like, anyone know of any major companies or something ?

 

- Harvard University

- University of California, Berkely

- Al Jazeera International

- Dana Farber Cancer Institute

- University of Osnabrueck, Germany

- Mayo Clinic

- 20th Century Fox

- 3M

- AAA Automobile Club

- ADT Security Services

- Albert Einstein College of Medicine

- AT&T

- BAE Systems

- Bank of America

- Bell Helicopters

- CableVision

- Cingular Wireless

- Coca-Cola

- Columbia University

- Compaq

- Denny's

- Drexel University

- Duke University

- Ford Motor Company

- IBM

- Kraft Foods of North America

- Lexmark International

- Motorola

- NASA

- NEC America

- Nestle Purina Pet Care

- Nortel Networks

- Northrop Grumman

- Penn State University

- Purdue University

- Reliance Insurance

- Rutgers University

- Siemens

- Sony

- Swarovski

- Symantec

- Texas Instruments Inc

- University of California Los Angeles

- University of Illinois @ Urbana

- University of Texas Cancer Center

- US Army

- US Robotics

- Vanderbilt University

- Verizon Wireless

- Virginia Tech

- Wal-Mart Inc.

- Xerox Corporation

 

 

To name a few.

 

 

Source 1

Source 2

[robotskip]

Macs are not intented for gaming, if thats what your solely basing your pathetic "upgrade problems" argument on, just like PC's are not intented for creative digital work. When there are 13 different selections with different avaliable configurations...saying that there is a lack of choices..especially when a few of them have extremely high end hardware options...is just plain ignorant on your part. Sure there arent that 1billion choices you have with PC's...but thats the same thing why Windows is bashed for, because of the crappy hardware support (especially on Vista). Quality Issues? Apple has THE best quality control and best designed hardware out there. That being said, no one is perfect, and there was that heat and whine issue...which was fixed about a year go. So again...if you are using an age old argument as your sole justification...your just downright uninformed. Dell has the most hardware problems, as does Acer, and Gateway, Hp, and the others. Dont talk as if they are perfect, or have less quality controll problems than Apple...when infact they have tons more issues. The pricing argument as also been time and time again been busted. If you were to configure an exact same machine from Dell, Hp or others...like exact Apple always comes out cheaper. If you want me to prove this to you..just say so, Ill do it gladly.

Hahahah, oh dear. First, I was talking about servers, second, I like how you call it 'pathetic,' that's quite.. uh.. mature of you and very understanding ("Hey, if a Mac isn't for them whatever reason they choose is pathetic !" - hahah).

 

Oh, and for all that is good, I didn't think people still seriously throw around that "MACS ARE FOR CREATIEV STFF LOZL" - last I heard you can run Photoshop, Maya and a ton of other major 'creative' apps on Windows and they function more or less the same as on Macs.

 

Man, I really hurt your feelings, didn't I ? Why can't you just accept that Macs aren't a viable choice for many, many, many people, did you [in real life] shed a tear ?

 

It has nothing to do with being ignorant, it simply has to do wit a lack of choice and many of us need those 1 billion choices. When I build a desktop PC I do a lot of research, check benchmarks, chech prices, check forums, check reviews, etc than I choose my 'perfect' setup - I can't do this with a Mac. Oh, and than there's the higher cost which gets me what, the infamous [tired] Apple 'design' (It's not for everyone, despite what people think) and what, OSX ? I like OSX a lot but I can have Linux (Ubunut, Gentoo, etc) or *BSD (FreeBSD) or Windows (Vista) so that's not a selling point either. I mean, the base model is A$ 1,549.00 and for almost half that I bought a brand new PC which is so much faster (Faster CPU, 2GB of faster ram, a good video card [7600GT], etc) and not to mention the main thing I hate about iMacs, it's one thing, I don't want this big ugly base on my desk, I want just my monitors (There's another problem, dual monitors would look ugly).

 

Here's a comment which adds onto the 'nothing to do with being ignorant' thing:

No offense but you're a total idiot. You cannot make a comparison between cars and computers. Totally different. The thing is, you can buy a Dell with a Core2, 2GB memory, an nvidia 7800 and 500gb of hddspace, or you could buy your theoretical Mac with the exact same specs, a "trendier" case and OSX for 100-200 more?

 

Guess where consumers will go. It won't be to Mac. Prices win in the computer field. Believe me, I worked for a local computer repair shop for over a year, and we had tons of models about 50-100$ cheaper than a Dell box of similar spec, and they would buy from us for that reason alone. We had used computers, {censored} old computers for 100-200$, and they would buy them up without a second thought.

 

You forgot that the vast majority of our population doesn't drive Lexus's and buy Mac's. They don't have the extra 200$ for a "better OS" (debatable, as far as I'm concerned).

 

I urge you to remember the NATIONAL US average wage as of 2005 is 36,952.94/year! ( http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html ) This is what, roughly 17.70$/hr for 40/hr weeks and 52wks/yr. Not everyone is like the Digg community, because I know a fair portion (if not the majority) of us make more, if not significantly more than 17/hr. We can afford 100$ extra on the exact same computer save an operating system that's supposedly better. We can shell that out, because to us, 100$ is what, 2 hours of work? 3 hours of work?

 

But to the average buyer, 100$ represents a lot of money. Paying for school lunches for a kid for a month or two, saving for their kids college, trying to get out of the debt they're inevitably in, paying monthly on cars that are probably too expensive.

 

So sure, you may feel like Apple can charge 100-200 more all day long, but the fact is, they already do that in a lot of cases. The only time they don't is what, laptops in the over 1200$ range? You can still get a Dell laptop for $500. Come on Apple, where are you when the students need you?

 

If Apple wants market share they'll undercut or match their competition. Welcome to reality.

Source: http://www.digg.com/apple/Open_Letter_To_S...ng_Mac#c6506720 - You should read the rest on there too.

 

As an experiment, I chose that base model (I have to keep the price as low as possible so it's the starting point) and configured it to be like my PC and all I could do was choose more RAM which bumped it up to $1,994 which is incredibly ridiculous. I could probably build a PC 3 times as fast for that with vastly better hardware. Oh, and the RAM was the only [hardware] choice I had, what the heck, see (This URL may not work ).

 

Feel free to build a PC with equal specs on Dell, HP or some other site, and show the Mac comes out cheaper. Oh, and you must do this on the Australian part of their site and you can't just choose any system, you have to match the low-end model of the iMac with 2GB of RAM. Here's a fun starting point, for $898 I can get a 40GB bigger HD, slightly slower CPU, twice the amount of RAM, etc for half the price and here's another fun starting point, for $200 less I can get a comparable CPU, 4 times the amount of ram, double the sized hard drive, 3 inch bigger, separated, LCD, a video card who the hell knows how much freaking better, etc.

 

And man, Dell is expensive, thank goodness I can build my own PCs.

 

Only the heat and whine issue ? Indeed, lol. And if they have this amazing quality why did these come about ? I mean, just before there was another class-action lawsuit started, see Apple MacBook, MacBook Pro screens subject of class-action lawsuit and in the comments there are people complaining about other issues and there are other sites like this MacBook random shutdown.

 

I never even freaking mentioned those companies and in no way spoke as if they were perfect, I simply made a comment about Apple and their mythical quality. Oh, and out of curiosity I'd like to see a report or something showing Apple has the best hardware quality and those companies have the worst, thanks.

 

PS - Use paragraph breaks, my eyes thank you.

PPS - If you think I'm alone, go read this Open Letter To Steve Jobs: Please Build The Missing Mac , it has over 4500 people who dugg it and over 350 comments, are all these people pathetic and ignorant too ?

PPPS - It's "you're" not "your."

PPPPS - I don't even know if I addressed everything your post due to the lack of spaces.

Source 1

Source 2

Where are all those sites listed on either of the addresses ? It's 3AM and I'm just totally out of it.

 

Edit: I'm still laughing at your comment about 'pathetic' upgrade problems and gaming, hahaha.

[EFI]

Hahahah, oh dear. First, I was talking about servers

 

No you weren't..stop trying to hide your well known blunder.

 

Your the biggest Windows fanboy out there (so far in this entire forum) you know that? Lol, I'm not going to "shed tears" because of what you said...infact I'm laughing at you almost uncontrollably. Not only are every single one of your facts flawed...but you bring in your Ballmer brainwashed mind into play...thats what makes me laugh even more. Billy and his shouldered parrot Ballmer would be proud of you, thats for sure...especially since you've managed to master the art of reality distortion. If I even begin to list the hardware problems that Dell and others had...your el cheapo methodology that Macs have just as much hardware problems would crumble in a matter of seconds. You provided links (which are out of date, and just down right stupid in the case of the Macbook Pro/Macbook screen bit lawsuit, which will never hold up in court) which are out of date, and have since been fixed by Apple in the current generation of Macbook/Macbook pros. Get your facts (if you even have any) in proper timeline...and then post. .

 

When you build an identical PC that is comparible to a Mac...you have to include the softwares/warranty/and all the freakin hardware features as well...not just the ones you think is enough...like what you did with those links you provided. Go back buddy..and add a Firewire 800 port, bluetooth 2.0, an iLife equivalent, a GeForce 7600GT, or a Radeon X1900XT, 1 year COMPLETE warranty, and Windows XP Professional, or Windows Vista Ultimate...not Vista Home Basic, and XP Home...because OS X comes in a full featured version...not like the crippled feature {censored} that Microsoft does to Windows XP..and Vista. So Fix all that and then come back, but so far, you've only proved that your a class 1 troll.

 

There is a reason why Macs are used for Creativity oriented professions...and windows is not. Contrary to what your windows bubbled mind believes, its not the software, genius ; its the stability of using that software...which is the operating system. OS X is much more stable and secure than Windows is...and this is important when you are working with a 4Gb Video file, or an 200 layeres 700MB Photoshop file.

 

 

You just want to start a flame war thats all, hence why your spewing out all that hoard of Ballmer and Co. Bull$**t around. If you ask me, just take some coffee...go over to the MSDN forums, get that Logitech G5 gaming keyboard and mouse, and starting intimately having some virtual inter windows fanboysim discussions on how Windows Vienna is going to be the next sexiest thing coming straight and raw from Ballmer's arse.

 

I have nothing against Windows users, infact I've had great discussions with some here who are users who prefer Windows over OS X. And I personally think Windows (XP!) is an excellent choice of an operating system when it comes to gaming...something which OS X is not good at. I've used Windows for 10 years...and still use XP MCE for gaming through bootcamp on my Macbook Pro... You on the other hand, is spreading out FUD faster than the time

, and just start flame wars on every single thread you get your fingers on. Move on man, your in the wrong forum to begin with.

 

Here is where your fellow fanboys hang around.

Have a nice stay!

[robotskip]

No you weren't..stop trying to hide your well known blunder.

HAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, here is my post:

*BSD > Linux > Windows > Mac OS

 

That's my preference with servers but I would almost -never- bother with Mac OS because it requires me buying Mac(s) which is bad enough for a desktop PC but I could never consider it for a server (For various reasons). I'm sure they're solid servers, just not the right choice for me and probably most others.

 

Thank goodness there is an intelligent discussion for once without the usual people accusing me, track09 and others of being fanboys. Thank you EFI and others.

As you can see by the parts I've put in bold and pink writing I was clearly talking about servers and the only mention of desktop PCs (I NEVER ONCE MENTIONED GAMING) was me saying how pricing was bad enough when I'm buying a single machine for my home but if I was a sysadmin in charge of a large business and had to spend tens of thousands on server equipment I would sure as hell be trying to minimise my costs.

 

EPIC FAIL.

 

I even thanked you and was being friendly yet you continue on with the useless 'LOL UR A FANB0Y LOLOLZ' line.

Your the biggest Windows fanboy out there (so far in this entire forum) you know that? Lol, I'm not going to "shed tears" because of what you said...infact I'm laughing at you almost uncontrollably. Not only are every single one of your facts flawed...but you bring in your Ballmer brainwashed mind into play...thats what makes me laugh even more. Billy and his shouldered parrot Ballmer would be proud of you, thats for sure...especially since you've managed to master the art of reality distortion. If I even begin to list the hardware problems that Dell and others had...your el cheapo methodology that Macs have just as much hardware problems would crumble in a matter of seconds. You provided links (which are out of date, and just down right stupid in the case of the Macbook Pro/Macbook screen bit lawsuit, which will never hold up in court) which are out of date, and have since been fixed by Apple in the current generation of Macbook/Macbook pros. Get your facts (if you even have any) in proper timeline...and then post. .

I'm not a fanboy, actually and previously djpc47 came across this discovery and unfortunately you haven't.

 

The definition of a fanboy:

 

"1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not.

2. A pathetic insult often used by fanboys themselves to try and put down people who don't like whatever it is they like."

 

1. I am not completely loyal, if I was I wouldn't openly point out things I do not like about Microsoft, it's products and it's services.

2. Uh-oh, do you apply to this rule ? And I'm quite certain I haven't ever directly and without reason called someone a 'fanboy' but if I have please point this out to me.

 

I do like a lot of Microsoft things such as the Xbox/X360, Vista, Office 2007 but if their competitors have products which I feel are a better choice I will use them, hence why I used OSX/Ubuntu over XP, use LAMP over Win server, GMail over Hotmail, YouTube over Soapbox, etc.

 

So, are you going to prove Apple has the best quality hardware and also prove what you said about Dell, HP and the other companies ? I'm looking forward to it.

 

PS, your post was reported - was there a need to make those petty, pathetic, silly and inaccurate insults ? I don't see how it aided your part of the debate, it simply makes you look silly and desperate.

PPS, I've pointed it out once already, it's "you're" not "your" - if you're going to try and insult me at least have the decency to use correct grammar most people learn in primary school.

When you build an identical PC that is comparible to a Mac...you have to include the softwares/warranty/and all the freakin hardware features as well...not just the ones you think is enough...like what you did with those links you provided. Go back buddy..and add a Firewire 800 port, bluetooth 2.0, an iLife equivalent, a GeForce 7600GT, or a Radeon X1900XT, 1 year COMPLETE warranty, and Windows XP Professional, or Windows Vista Ultimate...not Vista Home Basic, and XP Home...because OS X comes in a full featured version...not like the crippled feature {censored} that Microsoft does to Windows XP..and Vista. So Fix all that and then come back, but so far, you've only proved that your a class 1 troll.

No, I don't have to, actually. I have to do a comparison as close as I can to what I want.

 

I explicitly stated in my original post that I would not purchase a Mac because of reasons which may/may not apply to everyone else but they do to me. When I'm deciding between building my own PC or buying a Mac why should I be forced to bloat the price ? If I wish to buy every extended warranty, service plan, software, etc that is available, so be it, but when I built this current PC I picked out the 'perfect' hardware setup after quite a bit of research, I than checked out all the computer stores which are somewhat in my area to find who had the best price than I went down to whatever store I decided upon, gave them a list, had a quick decussion with the person to see if s/he had any suggestions and to ask how long the warranty is (Most of the time it's a few years) and than I give them my keycard thing and bought it (Though, in this case my dad paid for most of this PC).

 

So why the hell should I bloat the price with things like Firewire I don't freaking care about ? This is just further proof there is a lack of choice when it comes to buying a Mac for myself. I already have Office so why the hell should I buy it again. Also, in the first comparison the Dell had an onboard card and than in the second comparison it had a 7300 but the whole time I was comparing it to the base iMac (With equal amount of RAM I have) which only has an integrated chipset.

 

The only reason I made the simply and quick comparison with Dell was to please you. See what I put in bold ? That's to hopefully make you realise (You should've before) that I was talking about myself, not in your perfect scenario in which the Mac may come off cheaper.

 

So, I have proved that so far I am right and all you have done is thrown childish and petty insults, who is the real troll here ? On one side you have me voicing my opinion and on occasion using facts in other debates than we have you [and others] on the other side using childish and pathetic insults.

There is a reason why Macs are used for Creativity oriented professions...and windows is not. Contrary to what your windows bubbled mind believes, its not the software, genius ; its the stability of using that software...which is the operating system. OS X is much more stable and secure than Windows is...and this is important when you are working with a 4Gb Video file, or an 200 layeres 700MB Photoshop file.

I haven't had Windows crash since SP2 for XP which was how many years ago ? Also, prove Vista isn't stable or secure.

 

At uni when I was doing the base 3D modelling course they would crash kind of often depending upon you were doing (And this was on G5s) but I'm pretty sure it wasn't OSXs fault as most other programs hardly crashed. I have no stability problems on Windows, OSX or Linux and I think all are solid.

You just want to start a flame war thats all, hence why your spewing out all that hoard of Ballmer and Co. Bull$**t around. If you ask me, just take some coffee...go over to the MSDN forums, get that Logitech G5 gaming keyboard and mouse, and starting intimately having some virtual inter windows fanboysim discussions on how Windows Vienna is going to be the next sexiest thing coming straight and raw from Ballmer's arse.

Wow, I don't even know why I'm responding to someone who says " starting intimately having some virtual inter windows fanboysim" - GROW THE HELL UP and no, I do not want a flamewar because if I did I would use pathetic insults like you do.

I have nothing against Windows users, infact I've had great discussions with some here who are users who prefer Windows over OS X. And I personally think Windows (XP!) is an excellent choice of an operating system when it comes to gaming...something which OS X is not good at. I've used Windows for 10 years...and still use XP MCE for gaming through bootcamp on my Macbook Pro... You on the other hand, is spreading out FUD faster than the time

, and just start flame wars on every single thread you get your fingers on. Move on man, your in the wrong forum to begin with.

What FUD have I said ?

 

PS, once again, it's "you're" not "your."

Here is where your fellow fanboys hang around.

Have a nice stay!

Once again:

 

Grow up and stop resorting to pathetic, childish insults which add nothing and turn things into these flamewars you so vehemently are against.

 

I don't throw around insults and for a 'fanboy' shouldn't I be ? Also, for a fanboy shouldn't I not say anything negative about Microsoft and use it's products/services over everyone else ?

 

I don't fit the criteria for a fanboy, but you do.

 

Oh, and I love how you ignored:

 

- My comparisons showing how a PC is vastly cheaper and that was based upon Dell's ridiculous price, not the price I get when I build it myself which is soo much cheaper.

- The link to Digg with the article/comments about the 'missing Mac.'

- My request for you to do a comparison yourself which you openly offered to do and said you would be glad to.

- All those issues on that site, you simply labelled them all as 'old' or something similar.

- My request for clarification on those companies using Apple servers.

- My request for you to prove that Apple has the best quality and those other companies you listed are horrible.

[EFI]

First of all...it was YOU who started the insult..not me:

 

Man, I really hurt your feelings, didn't I ? Why can't you just accept that Macs aren't a viable choice for many, many, many people, did you [in real life] shed a tear ?

 

So it was you who started the sarcastic insult...not me. I followed suit..and that was wrong of me yes, so I apologize for doing that. I never started it though.

 

Second of all, stop writing in big bold letters, and neon colors..I have perfect vision, and I can read.

 

 

 

I'm not a fanboy, actually and previously djpc47 came across this discovery and unfortunately you haven't.

 

The definition of a fanboy:

 

"1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not.

2. A pathetic insult often used by fanboys themselves to try and put down people who don't like whatever it is they like."

 

1. I am not completely loyal, if I was I wouldn't openly point out things I do not like about Microsoft, it's products and it's services.

2. Uh-oh, do you apply to this rule ? And I'm quite certain I haven't ever directly and without reason called someone a 'fanboy' but if I have please point this out to me.

 

Actually You HAVE NEVER ever by defualt talked about the negitive aspects of the Windows operating sytem. You always go on judging OS X, and Macs in general. I know for a FACT that many, if not most of the members here will agree with me here if they see all your posts. Only once, from my time being here, after I literally asked you to name negative things about Windows...did you come out with it. Recently you started a topic in another thread that went by the title "In 5 weeks Vista surpassed the total Apple Mac installbase" under Windows Discussion section of this forum. You did this clearly knowing with the obvious fact that Windows Vista population will overtake the Entire Mac userbase in just a matter of months. You did this regardless, and this is a prime example of how you are close Windows minded only...but because of the truth..but becuase of its obviousness.

 

I am not a fanboy, because I clearly know where OS X's shortcomings are. I openly admitted that OS X sucks beyond {censored} when it comes to gaming and games support. Aparently you never read that part of my post. Funny.

 

No, I don't have to, actually. I have to do a comparison as close as I can to what I want.

 

Then you are NOT making a valid comparison. Period. In that case, you cannot compare a Mac to a Windows PC. What you are doing in other words is like purchasing a 7 seater SUV, and then asking for the price to be lower because you dont find the other 3 or 4 seats useful. You CANNOT do that. In order to make a valid comparison that PC's are cheaper than Macs...you have to do an equivalent hardware comparison...1:1. Just because Apple offers more features on their laptops or desktops that you will not use, which make it more expensive...does not give the excuse that Macs are more expensive. I urge you to do a similar comparison of PC's with the exact same hardware, before coming to such statements.

 

So why the hell should I bloat the price with things like Firewire I don't freaking care about ? This is just further proof there is a lack of choice when it comes to buying a Mac for myself. I already have Office so why the hell should I buy it again. Also, in the first comparison the Dell had an onboard card and than in the second comparison it had a 7300 but the whole time I was comparing it to the base iMac (With equal amount of RAM I have) which only has an integrated chipset.

 

First of all, Firewire 800, is much faster than USB 2.0, a fact which is known by more tech savvy individuals. Having a feature like this, especially if you own an external hard-drive (which is common among university students), is a monumental bonus. When there is an industry standard hardware feature, then downgrading and saying that this is a result of "a lack of choice" is just too comedical of a statement to be taken seriously. You say you have Office, yet this is the very same software from Micrsoft that also ships as a trial version (just like on Macs) with Dell PC's, HP, Acer, Toshiba, Sony, etc, etc. So your question of "why the hell should I buy it again" will also apply to PC's. However, aparently, you missed my entire argument here. I was talking about iLife, which comes with new Macs. I have yet to see an equivalent from Microsoft that ships with PC manufacturers. Until that day comes, I stand by my statement that you have to include the price of all the softwares that a Mac comes with, and the equivalent that is applicable to Windows enabled PC's. And, again, your information is flawed...the iMac, comes with variations with both the Intel GMA 950 (integrated graphics chipset), as well as the Mobility Radeon X1600 (dedicated GPU, which is much more powerful than the GeForce 7300). Please, gather information COMPLETELY.

 

That's to hopefully make you realise (You should've before) that I was talking about myself, not in your perfect scenario in which the Mac may come off cheaper.

 

This "perfect scenario" is the ONLY scenario in which you can properly compare the price of Macs vs PC's. Any configs other than that is simply imbalanced, therfore not valid.

 

On one side you have me voicing my opinion and on occasion using facts in other debates than we have you [and others] on the other side using childish and pathetic insults.

 

Notice a pattern how its always everyone (or most atleast) against you, every single time, in every single topic? There is a reason for that, and I think you know why, however yet you still continue to go on. Its not that you are voicing your opinion, its the way in which you are doing that, and this is not disclosing the downsides of the Windows operating system. You are so quick and ready to disprove anything that is said bad about Windows...that you fail to reaslize whether or not the argument at hand really stands true.

 

Also, prove Vista isn't stable or secure.

 

This is exactly why most of the members are against you. This is what I meant by when I said you are so quick to rebuttal any claims of Windows' instability or insecureness, that you dont realize the real facts behind the argument at hand. Its not that I dont want to provide proof, the reason why I'm not, is because there are numerous articels on the internet with about Vista's so-so stability on many hardware, and the fact that many of those viruses that were designed for XP already work flawlessly on Windows Vista. When you ask me to prove such an obvious and widespread fact, it kind of shows your ignorance, and this is why it gives the impression of dare I say it "a Fanboy".

 

GROW THE HELL UP and no, I do not want a flamewar because if I did I would use pathetic insults like you do.

 

Grow up? I'm not the one who says everyone goes "LOL UR A FANB0Y LOLOLZ" when someone makes a valid argument against you. No one even says that. Please, get real.

 

I don't throw around insults and for a 'fanboy' shouldn't I be ? Also, for a fanboy shouldn't I not say anything negative about Microsoft and use it's products/services over everyone else ?

 

Yes, you do throw insults, but in a different manner. Your agruments appear as insults becuase you constantly downplay Apple, the Mac, never ONCE even talk about a negative aspect of Micrsoft nor Windows. Trust me, this is the very same reason why many members here are not too fond of you.

 

- My comparisons showing how a PC is vastly cheaper and that was based upon Dell's ridiculous price, not the price I get when I build it myself which is soo much cheaper.

 

Yes, a custom home built PC will ALWAYS be much cheaper than an Apple, Dell, Hp, etc. This is a known fact, and is the very same reason why I built my own custom gaming PC and run Windows XP MCE SP2 on it. You cannot compare a custom built PC, with retail ones.

 

- The link to Digg with the article/comments about the 'missing Mac.'

 

I did not ignore this, I am very aware of this. There are numerous "petitions" that ask Apple do to many things, however none of them have ever gone through...why? because most of them would devastate either the Mac or OS X. I too would love to have a Mini-MacPro so to speak, but think about it...if Apple were to release such a Mac...that would literally devastate the iMac sales. This the worst decision form a business angle. You have got to view it from all angles...not just the ones that you like.

 

- My request for you to do a comparison yourself which you openly offered to do and said you would be glad to.

 

Here it is:

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/features/m...price/index.php

 

Its broken down feature by feature, so you know that that its done correctly.

 

- All those issues on that site, you simply labelled them all as 'old' or something similar.

 

Yes, because those sites you linked were using the first generation of Macbook Pro's...which had the whine and heat issues. These problems have since been fixed, so therfore yes, the article is old, and no longer stands valid.

 

- My request for clarification on those companies using Apple servers.

http://www.essdatarecovery.com/other.asp

 

- My request for you to prove that Apple has the best quality and those other companies you listed are horrible.

 

Linked the article from PC Mag below. Original PC Mag page linked below that.

 

Can all of Apple Computer's survey success be chalked up to fanatical users? Once again, the company turns in a top-notch performance. Apple has enough responses to qualify for the desktop and notebook categories, and it receives the best "overall rating" score in both: 8.8 in desktops, significantly better than the industry average of 7.8, and 9.0 for notebooks, also significantly better than the 8.0 average. These scores qualify as excellent on our 1-to-10 scale, earning the company Readers' Choice awards for both categories.

 

At 9.0 for desktops and 9.2 for notebooks, Apple's impressive reliability scores are at least a point higher than the industry averages. Nearly all respondents to our survey who supplied quotes about their Apple desktops found them extremely reliable. Compared with other brands, a much lower percentage of Apple desktop systems needed repairs over the last year.

 

 

 

A great number of the readers who sent in comments regarding Apple said that their older desktop systems were so dependable that they upgraded them instead of buying new systems. "I have a PowerMac 9500 from the mid-1990s," said reader Dallas Blair. "It has been upgraded with USB, FireWire, a PCI IDE card for hard drives, and a faster processor. It's the kind of workhorse that Windows machines can only aspire to." Apple users are similarly positive about their new Apple notebooks. The company's scores are far better than the competition's in the "overall rating" score, reliability, and the likelihood of being recommended. (We had fewer than 50 respondents who purchased Apple desktops within the last year, so we couldn't rate the company in this area.) According to Apple support managers, one reason the company does well in repair and support is that it makes both software and hardware: "Because Apple creates the hardware, software, and operating system, we provide integrated support. Nobody else can offer this kind of end-to-end support." Of course, Macintosh fans can choose machines from only one vendor.

 

Every Apple system comes with 90 days of toll-free telephone support and a one-year limited hardware warranty; some other vendors offer lifetime toll-free telephone support. Too few respondents report needing support with or repairs to their Apple computers to rate the company in these areas. Last year, Apple had better-than-average support for its desktops and notebooks, and its notebook repairs were similarly well regarded. (There were also too few respondents to rate desktop repairs in 2003.)

 

Part of the reason for Apple's high scores could be the user community's long-standing and exceptional brand enthusiasm, but it's hard to argue with such consistently high ratings.

 

Source: PC Magazine

[joe75]

robotskip, you fckin rule!

 

I gain more respect for you with every post I read

 

robotskip, you fckin rule!

 

I gain more respect for you with every post I read

[robotskip]

> First of all...it was YOU who started the insult..not me:

 

Hahah, so we have a single, one line joke from me (Unless I really hurt your feelings.. did I ? ) and than we have several paragraphs (?) from you with notable, witty lines such as:

 

- starting intimately having some virtual inter windows fanboysim

- your Ballmer brainwashed mind into play

- Billy and his shouldered parrot Ballmer would be proud of you

- the next sexiest thing coming straight and raw from Ballmer's arse.

 

Hahaah, I don't think my 'insult' as anywhere near on the level of yours. By the way, I don't like Ballmer, stop with the stupid comments.

 

> Actually You HAVE NEVER ever by defualt talked about the negitive aspects of the Windows operating sytem.

 

By never I assume you mean several times, right ?

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?sho...mp;#entry356816 - I list many things I don't like about Vista.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?sho...mp;#entry356641 - I list my server OS preference and Windows is third and I don't even seriously consider it.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=323325 - Here's me saying OSX/Ubuntu were my favourite OS' over any Windows version and I also considered if Ubunut 7.04 or Leopard could win me back and Ubunut 7.04 almost has, I find myself constantly booting into Ubuntu instead of Vista.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=313959 - Someone just said they don't like XP at all and that they'd take OSX, Ubunut or FreeBSD over it anyday.. hey ! That was me ! Also, I say in this post there are things I do not like about Vista yet you try to take credit for me 'coming out' about not liking some things about Vista, haha.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=312925 - I had some loading problems with CoH so I point them out and hope that MS or Relic fix it.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=312315 - Once again I point out Ubunut/OSX were my favourite OS' over any others, including Windows.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=295021 - I point out how I do not care what OS you use as long as you feel whatever OS you choose is the better choice for yourself and not based upon lies you read on the magical interweb. If I was a fanboy, like you say, wouldn't I blindly promote Windows ? Once again I defy the definition on of a fanboy.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=290780 - Yet another post about me preferring OSX to Windows, talking about owning/suggesting Apple products, preferring FreeBSD to use on servers, preferring Evolution to Outlook (Well, I kind of like Outlook2007 more now ), etc.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=289881 - Oh, here's me again saying I like XP over OSX but I now like Vista over OSX (Till Leopard is out, anyway ).

 

I'm sure I could find more, too. Is this another 'epic fail' ? Hahahah.

 

> You always go on judging OS X, and Macs in general. I know for a FACT that many, if not most of the members here will agree with me here if they see all your posts. Only once, from my time being here, after I literally asked you to name negative things about Windows...did you come out with it. Recently you started a topic in another thread that went by the title "In 5 weeks Vista surpassed the total Apple Mac installbase" under Windows Discussion section of this forum. You did this clearly knowing with the obvious fact that Windows Vista population will overtake the Entire Mac userbase in just a matter of months. You did this regardless, and this is a prime example of how you are close Windows minded only...but because of the truth..but becuase of its obviousness.

 

I am not a fanboy, because I clearly know where OS X's shortcomings are. I openly admitted that OS X sucks beyond {censored} when it comes to gaming and games support. Aparently you never read that part of my post. Funny.

 

Please point out my posts of me constantly judging OS X and Macs in general, 99% of my posts are simply correcting people who say things like "ROFLZ YOU NEED 256MB GFX CARD FOR AEROEROERO."

 

I did that for amusement, hence the smilies and so on. Also, if I was 'Windows minded only' why would I use other OS', buy Macs, prefer other solutions to Windows, etc.

 

And another point, even if I said nothing negative about Windows that doesn't mean I automatically love Windows, all it means is I don't bother to post my opinion because the posts I make do not call for my opinion, they call for me to find links disproving rubbish like "Vista is just XP with 3Y3 C4NDY!"

 

I never said you were a fanboy, the closest I got was saying you fit the criteria but I never once actually called you a fanboy - sorry to disappoint you.

 

> Then you are NOT making a valid comparison. Period. In that case, you cannot compare a Mac to a Windows PC. What you are doing in other words is like purchasing a 7 seater SUV, and then asking for the price to be lower because you dont find the other 3 or 4 seats useful. You CANNOT do that. In order to make a valid comparison that PC's are cheaper than Macs...you have to do an equivalent hardware comparison...1:1. Just because Apple offers more features on their laptops or desktops that you will not use, which make it more expensive...does not give the excuse that Macs are more expensive. I urge you to do a similar comparison of PC's with the exact same hardware, before coming to such statements.

 

I am making a valid comparison, I'm doing the best I can to buy a comparable Mac to the PC I bought, starting off with the lowest price.

 

Why should I be forced to pay for those extra seats ? This is why I build my own PCs so I don't get a PC bloated with things I do not want or need and this proves that Macs are expensive (In the iMac range, anyway) and that there is a distinct lack of choice. Also, it proves that there is indeed a 'missing Mac' like that Digg article I've pointed out.

 

So, either tell me why I should be forced to pay for extras I do not want therefore making it an expensive/silly choice or my comparison, for myself, is correct.

 

> First of all, Firewire 800, is much faster than USB 2.0, a fact which is known by more tech savvy individuals. Having a feature like this, especially if you own an external hard-drive (which is common among university students), is a monumental bonus. When there is an industry standard hardware feature, then downgrading and saying that this is a result of "a lack of choice" is just too comedical of a statement to be taken seriously. You say you have Office, yet this is the very same software from Micrsoft that also ships as a trial version (just like on Macs) with Dell PC's, HP, Acer, Toshiba, Sony, etc, etc. So your question of "why the hell should I buy it again" will also apply to PC's. However, aparently, you missed my entire argument here. I was talking about iLife, which comes with new Macs. I have yet to see an equivalent from Microsoft that ships with PC manufacturers. Until that day comes, I stand by my statement that you have to include the price of all the softwares that a Mac comes with, and the equivalent that is applicable to Windows enabled PC's. And, again, your information is flawed...the iMac, comes with variations with both the Intel GMA 950 (integrated graphics chipset), as well as the Mobility Radeon X1600 (dedicated GPU, which is much more powerful than the GeForce 7300). Please, gather information COMPLETELY.

 

I know it's faster and if I did video editing and had to transfer footage from a cam I would use firewire.. but I don't, all I need are several USB slots for my mouse/keyboard, iPod Nano, digital camera, web cam and some other things. Also, my external HDD uses USB, sure, firewire would be neat for that single thing but it would be silly to buy something I use once every few weeks and do not badly need.

 

So what if it has a trial ? I already own Office for Windows so when I upgrade I do not have to buy it again, that was the whole point of my post. Like I pointed out, and even dedicated a whole paragraph too, I'm not talking about your scenario(s), I'm talking about what happens to myself when I'm buying a new computer. Also, I had to choose the lowest costing iMac to compare because I spent ~ over half the cost of a new iMac on my new PC and when I buy a new PC I do not have to re-purchase Windows and so on so that further invalidates your claims.

 

Oh, and isn't the X1600 in the next 17" model not a mobility version as those are used in laptops ? I laugh at your gathering skills unless I missed where it says mobility. By the way, I'm basing this off the 'Specs' page in the store which says "ATI Radeon X1600 with 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM."

 

To drive home my point, when you view the Macbooks it explicitly says "ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM." Another epic fail by EFI ? You decide, viewers ! Hahah.

 

> This "perfect scenario" is the ONLY scenario in which you can properly compare the price of Macs vs PC's. Any configs other than that is simply imbalanced, therefore not valid.

 

You seem to have, once again despite me making it very obvious, missed that I was talking about myself, so no, the perfect scenario isn't the only scenario unless every one of us many million PC users fit in your perfect scenario. You'll have thousands of different scenarios because not everyone is the same.

 

So, what I've said is valid and your post further points out that strict choices in buying a Mac.

 

Notice a pattern how its always everyone (or most atleast) against you, every single time, in every single topic? There is a reason for that, and I think you know why, however yet you still continue to go on. Its not that you are voicing your opinion, its the way in which you are doing that, and this is not disclosing the downsides of the Windows operating system. You are so quick and ready to disprove anything that is said bad about Windows...that you fail to reaslize whether or not the argument at hand really stands true.

 

2 or 3 people do not account to 'everyone' and does it matter what my opinion is or whether I point out things I do not like if I'm simply saying "No, Vista isn't just XP with eye candy" - Please tell me how my opinion matters in a case of this or why I should point out the downsides.

 

> This is exactly why most of the members are against you. This is what I meant by when I said you are so quick to rebuttal any claims of Windows' instability or insecureness, that you dont realize the real facts behind the argument at hand. Its not that I dont want to provide proof, the reason why I'm not, is because there are numerous articels on the internet with about Vista's so-so stability on many hardware, and the fact that many of those viruses that were designed for XP already work flawlessly on Windows Vista. When you ask me to prove such an obvious and widespread fact, it kind of shows your ignorance, and this is why it gives the impression of dare I say it "a Fanboy".

 

I said prove it, not just say "ITS ON THE INTERWEBS, I sWEAR !" Oh, and I have to admit I haven't heard anything about XP viruses working on Vista and I'm pretty sure news like that would be plastered on Digg, /. and elsewhere.

 

If you're going to make claims like that you have to have information on hand [or easily accessible]. Also, I searched for things like "Windows XP viruses on Vista" and I couldn't find anything, some links please ? A similar thing happened when looking for "Proof Windows Vista isn't stable" - maybe I just suck at using search engines ? But than again, if it was as so widespread reported as you claim wouldn't there be thousands of links ?

 

> Grow up? I'm not the one who says everyone goes "LOL UR A FANB0Y LOLOLZ" when someone makes a valid argument against you. No one even says that. Please, get real.

 

I do not say that everyone says that, I only say that when people actually say fanboy, like you. And no, you can't tell me to 'get real' or attempt to say 'grow up' after saying things like "the next sexiest thing coming straight and raw from Ballmer's arse" and "starting intimately having some virtual inter windows fanboysim."

 

> Yes, you do throw insults, but in a different manner. Your agruments appear as insults becuase you constantly downplay Apple, the Mac, never ONCE even talk about a negative aspect of Micrsoft nor Windows. Trust me, this is the very same reason why many members here are not too fond of you.

 

As I proved I, several times, have said something negative about Microsoft. I do not care if very many members are fond of me. Also, point out me constantly downplaying Apple and the Mac.

 

> Yes, a custom home built PC will ALWAYS be much cheaper than an Apple, Dell, Hp, etc. This is a known fact, and is the very same reason why I built my own custom gaming PC and run Windows XP MCE SP2 on it. You cannot compare a custom built PC, with retail ones.

 

And that's why Apple, Dell and others will never get a sale from me until they either lower costs, give me more choice and give a compelling reason for the high costs. Especially Apple.

 

And I can compare them, why the hell can't I ? For myself and thousands like me when we're in the market for a new PC there are many choices, you could buy a second hand one (I would almost never do this), build one yourself, buy one from a large company, etc - building our own is almost always the best choice.

 

> I did not ignore this, I am very aware of this. There are numerous "petitions" that ask Apple do to many things, however none of them have ever gone through...why? because most of them would devastate either the Mac or OS X. I too would love to have a Mini-MacPro so to speak, but think about it...if Apple were to release such a Mac...that would literally devastate the iMac sales. This the worst decision form a business angle. You have got to view it from all angles...not just the ones that you like.

 

Than they do not care about me and are focusing on making money, not that that's a bad thing but it seems Apple is just like most other companies out there and not the glorious, friendly, 'everything-for-the-consumer' company people make them out to be.

 

I don't hold it against Apple, I simply point out "Hey, Macs/OSX are great, really, but until there is a viable option for me I won't be buying one, sorry. " Why would it draw sales from the iMac ? People like me aren't buying any Macs so all it would do, regarding those of us who would buy them, is increase sales. I don't have to view it from all angles, I simply have to view it from my personal angle, why the hell should I complicate my choice with things that don't matter to me just to fit the mould to buy a Mac ?

 

> Here it is:

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/features/m...price/index.php

 

Its broken down feature by feature, so you know that that its done correctly.

 

This doesn't apply to me, I'm not in the market to spend $3000, I said for myself Macs are expensive, not for your perfect scenario like this. Oh, and it doesn't seem to be based upon Australian prices - is it ? I usually spend around $1000AU, or just under, when I get a new PC and the cheapest iMac is over $1500AU - this is why I say Macs are expensive compared to a PC I can get other ways.

 

> Yes, because those sites you linked were using the first generation of Macbook Pro's...which had the whine and heat issues. These problems have since been fixed, so therfore yes, the article is old, and no longer stands valid.

 

But aren't there several other problems on that page ? And I don't really care, I simply posted that to show that there are people who actually complain, and I only posted it because you were making a claim about their marvelous hardware quality.

 

> http://www.essdatarecovery.com/other.asp

 

How do you know that is explicitly clients who were using XServers ? Please prove all of these companies were using XServers and for the record, I'm laughing quite loudly at you using a data recovery company as a source (I kid, I kid).

 

> Linked the article from PC Mag below. Original PC Mag page linked below that.

 

Do you have something more reliable than a survey ? But thank you, that wasn't so hard was it ?

 

The amusing thing is though, on the next page it states, in the survey (lol), that Dell had a less than average rating on notebooks but on desktops it was above the average following only Apple yet you claim "Dell has the most hardware problems" but it seems in some areas it's above the average but in some, like notebooks, they don't fair too well.

 

But than again, this is just a reader survey, it's not quite dooming.

 

You also failed to address:

 

- My 'well known blunder' about talking about gaming. Who's well known blunder is it now ? Hahah.

- You offering to do a comparison yourself which you would be glad to do.

- My quick comparison showing Dell as being cheaper/better choice.

 

And some other things, but I think your hands are full especially with so many epic fails on the table. /jks

 

----

 

I <3 you too joe75. ^______^

[GBK.Xscape]

wow guys, get a life, these operating systems are not your religions although it seems you have made them out to be one. just believe what you believe and who cares if you do not like vista, xp , or mac osx.

[EFI]

First of all, stop saying "unless I really hurt your feelings.. did I", because it makes you have that sarcastic tone again, which is asking for trouble. There are other ways of trying to convey that..not that you did hurt my feelings. I just take whatever you say with a grain of salt, thats all. Secondly, it doesnt matter whether you started with just 1. You initiated the sarcasm with "ridiculously" line, and that was enough.

 

 

> Actually You HAVE NEVER ever by defualt talked about the negitive aspects of the Windows operating sytem.

By never I assume you mean several times, right ?

 

Right...except you fail to mention that in every single post, you bash OS X and Macs before you make your "see I dont like some things about windows too" statement. Stop twisting the words, here's proof.

 

"http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?sho...mp;#entry356816 - I list many things I don't like about Vista."

 

Yeah, you listed those things AFTER I literally asked you to do so. Before that, you were completely against Macs..here's a quite from that topic from you:

 

And, even if they are biased it does not change what they're saying, you could post the same thing anywhere else and it would still be true.

 

There you go, you just proved that you are indeed WIndows minded, and sadly your "arrogant" personal judgemnet has gotten the better of you. Then only after this statement made by you did I ask you to literally list some negative things about Vista. So again..dont twist words, you wouldnt have talked about the things you dont like about Vista, If I never asked you to.

 

 

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?sho...mp;#entry356641 - I list my server OS preference and Windows is third and I don't even seriously consider it.

 

Right...except in that very same post, you say this:

 

I would almost -never- bother with Mac OS because it requires me buying Mac(s) which is bad enough for a desktop PC

 

There you go, you make this blind sweeping statement again, and generalize that Mac desktops are worse than PC desktops somehow. Again, stop twisting words...firstly you rated OS X worse than Windows (which I still never read you explanin why), but you go on making an anti-mac statement like this. Further validates my point that your so called "I said bad things about Vista too" posts are just plain phony.

 

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=323325 - Here's me saying OSX/Ubuntu were my favourite OS' over any Windows version and I also considered if Ubunut 7.04 or Leopard could win me back and Ubunut 7.04 almost has, I find myself constantly booting into Ubuntu instead of Vista.

 

Funny, considering now you are changing your argument:

 

I like Vista, it's now my favourite desktop OS beating out OSX/Ubuntu which where my previous favourites, maybe Edgy or Leopard can win me back but from what I can see so far, I doubt it but who knows.

 

Again, this is funny because you are saying maybe Leopard can win you back...which means that the so called "macs are expensive" argument that you said doesnt apply to you...you strictly just dont like Macs because you dont like OS X...is that true?, becuase you would be willing to pay this "premium price" if Leopard was good enough for you...correct?

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=313959 - Someone just said they don't like XP at all and that they'd take OSX, Ubunut or FreeBSD over it anyday.. hey ! That was me ! Also, I say in this post there are things I do not like about Vista yet you try to take credit for me 'coming out' about not liking some things about Vista, haha.

 

Now, the next 2 articles will show how compared to OS X, Vista isn't a hog, or it's not a hog alone:

 

For every one good post you make...you make one bad post as well. Why is that?

 

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=312925 - I had some loading problems with CoH so I point them out and hope that MS or Relic fix it.

 

Read the above quote.

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=312315 - Once again I point out Ubunut/OSX were my favourite OS' over any others, including Windows.

 

Vista is now my primary/favourite desktop beating out Ubuntu/OS X as my last favourites. It does more or less everything they do, better, and it has other extra things they're missing.

 

Such as? You dont provide proof, its all opinionative thats all. This is what I'm talking about.

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=295021 - I point out how I do not care what OS you use as long as you feel whatever OS you choose is the better choice for yourself and not based upon lies you read on the magical interweb. If I was a fanboy, like you say, wouldn't I blindly promote Windows ? Once again I defy the definition on of a fanboy.

 

Actually, yes, you do blindly promote windows, and even when people give good examples of why something is a flaw in Vista...you still ignore that and go on and in most cases, say that it is better in Vista than it is in OS X, Linux (Ubuntu), etc.

 

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=290780 - Yet another post about me preferring OSX to Windows, talking about owning/suggesting Apple products, preferring FreeBSD to use on servers, preferring Evolution to Outlook (Well, I kind of like Outlook2007 more now ), etc.

 

Well, you cannot really compare OS X Tiger to Windows XP (even though technically they are competeing against each other). The choice between the two is rather glaringly obvious. The real debate is OS X Tiger vs Vista. Now this is much more of a doable competition and a worthy debate. Comparing XP to Tiger is like comparing a Mercedes to a Hyundai (no offence to Hyundai...but you get the point). So IF you were to say that you preferred Xp over Tiger...then there is a serious problem here. SO my point is that this is an obvious choice. However, when it comes to Vista, pretty much every single feature is already present in OS X Tiger itself in one form or another. This is the real argument, this is the real debate. So dont use XP as an excuse for putting down Windows against OS X..and then saying "see, I said OS X is better than Windows blah blah blah". Tiger is light years ahead of XP, and Vista is a much more reasonable comparison...and here you always say that Vista is better, and has more features, without providing any proof. Talk 1:1 here. Please.

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...&pid=289881 - Oh, here's me again saying I like XP over OSX but I now like Vista over OSX (Till Leopard is out, anyway ).

 

Read my response to your first link. OS X Tiger still has plenty of power to take on Vista head on. We'll see when Leopard comes out...until then, we just have to wait.

 

I'm sure I could find more, too. Is this another 'epic fail' ? Hahahah.

 

Epic fail? Did you come up with that yourself? What do you mean by Epic Fail? Is the fact that I proved that your links that you provided to show that you are not biased false the reason to come up with this "foolish" term?

 

 

Please point out my posts of me constantly judging OS X and Macs in general, 99% of my posts are simply correcting people who say things like "ROFLZ YOU NEED 256MB GFX CARD FOR AEROEROERO."

 

Its not that you are correcting...its the way in which you correct. You dont provide a proper and valid comparison between the two operating systems...you just go online....find some random site that says something postitive about Windows (about its memory usage or otherwise), and then come back here in a blatent attempt to prove others wrong. While there is nothing wrong in that, You should also provide some insights into the conclusions the article presented and whether or not it was properly conducted.

 

 

And another point, even if I said nothing negative about Windows that doesn't mean I automatically love Windows, all it means is I don't bother to post my opinion because the posts I make do not call for my opinion, they call for me to find links disproving rubbish like "Vista is just XP with 3Y3 C4NDY!"

 

Actually yes it does. If someone constantly downplays OS X and Macs...but fails to even utter a word about Microsoft's wrongdoings unless forced to....that does infact mean the individual has a particular biasness towards Windows. Notice how I'm no longer calling or using the term "fanboy".

 

 

I am making a valid comparison, I'm doing the best I can to buy a comparable Mac to the PC I bought, starting off with the lowest price.

 

Why should I be forced to pay for those extra seats ? This is why I build my own PCs so I don't get a PC bloated with things I do not want or need and this proves that Macs are expensive (In the iMac range, anyway) and that there is a distinct lack of choice. Also, it proves that there is indeed a 'missing Mac' like that Digg article I've pointed out.

 

So, either tell me why I should be forced to pay for extras I do not want therefore making it an expensive/silly choice or my comparison, for myself, is correct.

 

When the features are all industry standard, and some even next gen (802.11n), then calling it bloatware is incorrect. Just because YOU dont use the features, dont generalize. Secondly, your argument is severely flawed when you constantly compare custom built PC's to those sold in retail by Apple, Dell, Hp, etc, etc. Please, stop restating the obvious. Its a fact yes, that custom built PC's are always cheaper...HENCE WHY I HAVE A CUSTOM BUILT PC for gaming...you KEEP on ignoring this fact. Why so? Just because Apple does not offer extremely cheap and old generation hardware does not mean you can use the excuse of "tell me why I should be forced to pay extras". If you dont want it..then good, keep on moving to a Dell or any other PC. Apple mostly only offers medium to high hardware configs...not the low end one, which is why it looks like Apple is always more expensive than the other PC makers, when in fact it is because Apple does not offer cheap products with crippled hardware to begin with.

 

 

I know it's faster and if I did video editing and had to transfer footage from a cam I would use firewire.. but I don't, all I need are several USB slots for my mouse/keyboard, iPod Nano, digital camera, web cam and some other things. Also, my external HDD uses USB, sure, firewire would be neat for that single thing but it would be silly to buy something I use once every few weeks and do not badly need.

 

Personal preference, therfore I cant comment nor argue on that. If thats what suits you well, then its fine. However all Macs come with USB 2.0 ports as well...so your not limited.

 

So what if it has a trial ? I already own Office for Windows so when I upgrade I do not have to buy it again, that was the whole point of my post. Like I pointed out, and even dedicated a whole paragraph too, I'm not talking about your scenario(s), I'm talking about what happens to myself when I'm buying a new computer. Also, I had to choose the lowest costing iMac to compare because I spent ~ over half the cost of a new iMac on my new PC and when I buy a new PC I do not have to re-purchase Windows and so on so that further invalidates your claims.

 

Actually, almost all of the PC makers nowadays cheap out in providing the operating system for restore purposes. The ONLY maker I still know who provide the full Windows operating system (what ever version) for restore or reinstall purposes is Dell. Hp has a recovery partition, however does not provide an actual recovery disk. Same with Sony, Acer, and Gateway, from what I have seen. Secondly, you do not have to repurchase OS X either..it comes with the Mac, the full version, so I dont know what your argument here even is.

 

Oh, and isn't the X1600 in the next 17" model not a mobility version as those are used in laptops ? I laugh at your gathering skills unless I missed where it says mobility. By the way, I'm basing this off the 'Specs' page in the store which says "ATI Radeon X1600 with 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM."

 

What the heck are you rambling about? Yes the iMacs use the Mobility Radeon X1600, and yes, incase you never knew, that IS a laptop card. The iMac is more or less a laptop on stands with a much bigger widescreen. SO what was your argument here anyways...your very much sounding unclear.

 

To drive home my point, when you view the Macbooks it explicitly says "ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM." Another epic fail by EFI ? You decide, viewers ! Hahah.

 

Do you have any idea what the hell your even talking about? Your stating the obvious...again. Grow up, and stop using the term "epic fail". You sound way to childish every time you say that. Seriously.

 

 

You seem to have, once again despite me making it very obvious, missed that I was talking about myself, so no, the perfect scenario isn't the only scenario unless every one of us many million PC users fit in your perfect scenario. You'll have thousands of different scenarios because not everyone is the same.

 

Again, if you are talking about yourself...then DONT COMPARE to begin with.

 

 

2 or 3 people do not account to 'everyone' and does it matter what my opinion is or whether I point out things I do not like if I'm simply saying "No, Vista isn't just XP with eye candy" - Please tell me how my opinion matters in a case of this or why I should point out the downsides.

 

Oh, lol, trust me, its not just 2 or 3 people. . Just look back in every thread you've posted in. Because you fail to defend your arguments...thats the point. You can say vista isnt just XP with eye candy...but what have you done to support and defend that statement? You should point of the downsides..if you dont want to be considered as as well...you know. Windows does have its downsides, so please, dont ignore them. Its one thing if you say no, windows has such and such features...but if you dont have the equality to say..."however, there are some aspects" and so on. Then you can close your statement by saying "however, I still prefer windows, becuase that suits me fine"...and thats it, NO ONE would argue against that (including me). Thats a perfectly acceptable response. However you never do that. Instead you do this:

 

This is inaccurate, by the way, but I'm sure that won't ruin the mindless circle-jerk.

 

Nope, they're just regurgitating the news without doing any fact checking like 90% of the other sites out there.

And who the hell uses MegaGames as a news source ?

 

and many more.

 

I said prove it, not just say "ITS ON THE INTERWEBS, I sWEAR !" Oh, and I have to admit I haven't heard anything about XP viruses working on Vista and I'm pretty sure news like that would be plastered on Digg, /. and elsewhere.

 

If you're going to make claims like that you have to have information on hand [or easily accessible]. Also, I searched for things like "Windows XP viruses on Vista" and I couldn't find anything, some links please ? A similar thing happened when looking for "Proof Windows Vista isn't stable" - maybe I just suck at using search engines ? But than again, if it was as so widespread reported as you claim wouldn't there be thousands of links ?

 

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/reference...tackSurface.pdf

 

 

And that's why Apple, Dell and others will never get a sale from me until they either lower costs, give me more choice and give a compelling reason for the high costs. Especially Apple.

 

1. Thats a personal opinion

2. That can at most only apply to desktops, not laptops. It is possible to custom build a laptop...but its difficulty level is extremely high.

 

And I can compare them, why the hell can't I ? For myself and thousands like me when we're in the market for a new PC there are many choices, you could buy a second hand one (I would almost never do this), build one yourself, buy one from a large company, etc - building our own is almost always the best choice.

 

Yes, building your own PC is the best choice, I agree with you on that 100% RobotSkip, however you cannot compare that to retail PC's. Not everyone has the knowhow to bulld their own PC's...for starters.

 

Than they do not care about me and are focusing on making money, not that that's a bad thing but it seems Apple is just like most other companies out there and not the glorious, friendly, 'everything-for-the-consumer' company people make them out to be.

 

Common, are you serious? You Actually expect a multibillion dollar company to bend over and create a brand new comptuer family, just so they can satisfy 4000 somewhat individuals out of the 20 million of the total userbase? Seriously, you have to start thinking beyond that angle...think from the perspective of Apple. Apple has done things from popular demands, such as adding the Firewire 800 port to the Macbook Pro, due to popular customer requests. See, they do it..when its economically fine, however creating a new Mac family....is not as easy as it sounds. Doing that is like asking Dell to make the XPS line cheap, becuase they now own Alienware...so why do they need to have 2 high end gaming sectors? Its becuase Dell is too far in the game to do that to the XPS line.

 

I don't hold it against Apple, I simply point out "Hey, Macs/OSX are great, really, but until there is a viable option for me I won't be buying one, sorry. " Why would it draw sales from the iMac ? People like me aren't buying any Macs so all it would do, regarding those of us who would buy them, is increase sales. I don't have to view it from all angles, I simply have to view it from my personal angle, why the hell should I complicate my choice with things that don't matter to me just to fit the mould to buy a Mac ?

 

It would draw sales from the iMac becuase thats currently their best selling midstream desktop product. Sure there will be another option, however the population will tend to switch products, essentially draining the sales of the iMac. However, this might never happen, as its only a prediction, but it sounds the most possible route.

 

 

This doesn't apply to me

 

Well, I cant do anything about that. You wanted to know if it was possible, and I said yes, and showed you the evidence. I can understand where you coming from though. But I made is clear that it is infact possible to do.

 

But aren't there several other problems on that page ? And I don't really care, I simply posted that to show that there are people who actually complain, and I only posted it because you were making a claim about their marvelous hardware quality.

 

I think we can atleast agree on the fact that NO one is perfect. . That being said, Apple's hardware quality is definately on the higher grounds, when compared to the other PC manufacuters...as proven from the last link I gave you.

 

How do you know that is explicitly clients who were using XServers ? Please prove all of these companies were using XServers and for the record, I'm laughing quite loudly at you using a data recovery company as a source (I kid, I kid).

 

Well, the data recovery company is using X Serves' on raids, and those are their clients. This essentially means that the clients use the XServe albeit indirectly, for backup/recovery solutions.

 

 

Do you have something more reliable than a survey ? But thank you, that wasn't so hard was it ?

 

The amusing thing is though, on the next page it states, in the survey (lol), that Dell had a less than average rating on notebooks but on desktops it was above the average following only Apple yet you claim "Dell has the most hardware problems" but it seems in some areas it's above the average but in some, like notebooks, they don't fair too well.

 

But than again, this is just a reader survey, it's not quite dooming.

 

Lol, now you are blaming me for not providing a proper evidence? Common...you wanted proof that Apple has higher quality hardware, and I showed you the proof. You are always dismissing any proof that I give you, and it just looks wrong on your part.

 

 

- My 'well known blunder' about talking about gaming. Who's well known blunder is it now ? Hahah.

 

Your too vague here...could you explain that in a little more detal as what you are trying to convey/or imply?

 

 

- You offering to do a comparison yourself which you would be glad to do.

 

I did.

 

- My quick comparison showing Dell as being cheaper/better choice.

 

Your comparison never showed that the Dell was a cheaper and a better choice. Its entire hardware was basic...how is that a valid comparison to a a Mac?

 

 

many epic fails on the table. /jks

 

I'm asking this politely...please...stop saying "epic fails". It sounds too geeky and childish.

 

 

You prefer to use Windows.....I prefer to use OS X. Its as simple as that.

[robotskip]

That's the way I deal with a line of people, you happen to be in that line. A good way to get out would be to stop repeatedly talking about Ballmer (Or do you have a secret fetish for him ? Maybe a shrine hidden in your basement ? )

 

> Right...except you fail to mention that in every single post, you bash OS X and Macs before you make your "see I dont like some things about windows too" statement. Stop twisting the words, here's proof.

 

Even if I did, which I don't, it does not change that you claimed I had never said anything negative about Windows.

 

Also, how can I twist my own words ?

 

> Yeah, you listed those things AFTER I literally asked you to do so. Before that, you were completely against Macs..here's a quite from that topic from you:

 

Why should I constantly point out things I do not like about Windows ? I have no real reason to unless the topic requires that and it usually doesn't.

 

For the following things, you've more or less taken every single comment out of context, I'll show how [for most of them].

 

> There you go, you just proved that you are indeed WIndows minded, and sadly your "arrogant" personal judgemnet has gotten the better of you. Then only after this statement made by you did I ask you to literally list some negative things about Vista. So again..dont twist words, you wouldnt have talked about the things you dont like about Vista, If I never asked you to.

 

I could say 1+1=2 on a site which is painfully pro-maths (It's the interweb, everything exists ) but that doesn't mean that it is biased. In the quote you take I was talking about someone reporting on facts, the facts happen to be tests someone did with old[er] hardware, compared boot times and other things, etc - just because you claimed they were biased doesn't magically make the reportings wrong.

 

So, if they grab a old PC like the Ars Technica one and report how well/bad Vista ran, it won't be wrong just because you claim that site is biased [which you failed prove, along with the other sites].

 

And I would've never spoke about things I do not like because they had nothing to do with the thread, it was mostly about performance of Vista, please tell me how the hell whether I like the Sidebar or not is relevant and you simply posed the question to try and invalidate my posts because you were getting desperate.

 

> Right...except in that very same post, you say this: There you go, you make this blind sweeping statement again, and generalize that Mac desktops are worse than PC desktops somehow. Again, stop twisting words...firstly you rated OS X worse than Windows (which I still never read you explanin why), but you go on making an anti-mac statement like this. Further validates my point that your so called "I said bad things about Vista too" posts are just plain phony.

 

Where was I making a sweeping statement and generalisation ? In the beginniong of my post I state what my opinion/personal preference so this indicates that the rest of my post is following on from that and based upon my personal experiences as I've pointed out 3 or so times now.

 

See, you're so "oh, don't twist my words" yet you do it worse than I do (If I even do) and you take my words out of context.

 

> Funny, considering now you are changing your argument:

 

No, I am not changing my opinion (Argument ? What the hell, go find a dictionary). In the post you quote I say OSX/Ubuntu were (In English and in the way I phrased that sentence that means/indicates past tense)

 

So, in both posts I state OSX/Ubuntu were my previous favourites until Vista came onto the scene. No changing of opinion (I really can't believe you said argument, do you understand what an opinion is ?).

 

Stop twisting my words and taking them out of context, lol.

 

> Again, this is funny because you are saying maybe Leopard can win you back...which means that the so called "macs are expensive" argument that you said doesnt apply to you...you strictly just dont like Macs because you dont like OS X...is that true?, becuase you would be willing to pay this "premium price" if Leopard was good enough for you...correct?

 

Let's pretend BMW's are my favourite brand of car but I have never owned one and have only driven them a couple of times (Once was for a job, not as a driver for someone but I was working with BMW in another state as a temp. thing) - but they can still be my favourite whether I own one or not and the main reason I don't is because of the price.

 

So, Leopard could become my favourite whether I buy a Mac or not and I have ample opportunities to use a Mac which would have Leopard (Friends would upgrade instantly, possibly hackintosh, at Uni, at work, etc).

 

I do like Macs, I never said I didn't, that's simply you putting words in my mouth and a clear example of you doing this is "you strictly just dont like Macs because you dont like OS X...is that true?" So, it's not true and I do like OSX, if I didn't like it why would I prefer it over XP ? I'm baffled by how your brain works.

 

Hahahahah.

 

> Read the above quote.

 

Read my posts, oh, and find a clue. (That smilie indicates a joke, like the las ~ 53 times :censored2:).

 

> Such as? You dont provide proof, its all opinionative thats all. This is what I'm talking about.

 

Well duh, that post was clearly my opinion, what the hell are you thinking, seriously ? In the beginning I talk about my favourite OS, etc which clearly shows that part is my opinion.

 

> Actually, yes, you do blindly promote windows, and even when people give good examples of why something is a flaw in Vista...you still ignore that and go on and in most cases, say that it is better in Vista than it is in OS X, Linux (Ubuntu), etc.

 

Links to me blindly promoting Windows or stop talking. If people post a valid flaw, than so be it, but if some ignorant kid wants to say "Vista is XP with eye candy" I'll correct them, but if someone says "I don't like how Flip3D works" than so be it.

 

> Well, you cannot really compare OS X Tiger to Windows XP (even though technically they are competeing against each other). The choice between the two is rather glaringly obvious. The real debate is OS X Tiger vs Vista. Now this is much more of a doable competition and a worthy debate. Comparing XP to Tiger is like comparing a Mercedes to a Hyundai (no offence to Hyundai...but you get the point). So IF you were to say that you preferred Xp over Tiger...then there is a serious problem here. SO my point is that this is an obvious choice. However, when it comes to Vista, pretty much every single feature is already present in OS X Tiger itself in one form or another. This is the real argument, this is the real debate. So dont use XP as an excuse for putting down Windows against OS X..and then saying "see, I said OS X is better than Windows blah blah blah". Tiger is light years ahead of XP, and Vista is a much more reasonable comparison...and here you always say that Vista is better, and has more features, without providing any proof. Talk 1:1 here. Please.

 

When I'm talking about my opinion, most notably the OS I prefer, I do not have to conform to your little scenarios. XP was out, Tiger was out and so was Ubuntu (6.06/5.04 IIRC), so I used all 3 and decided what my favourite(s) were.

 

Tiger is not light years ahead of XP but it is superior in most ways and for me I like Vista more-so than OSX [Tiger] (I don't think I've ever tried to state for a fact that Vista is superirior).

 

STOP ATTACKING MY PERSONAL OPINION, THAT SEEMS TO BE ALL YOU'RE DOING OR AT LEAST THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME.

 

If I like Vista over OSX, deal with it and continue living, why the hell does it matter so much to you if my personal opinion is that ? What is wrong with you ?

 

> Epic fail? Did you come up with that yourself? What do you mean by Epic Fail? Is the fact that I proved that your links that you provided to show that you are not biased false the reason to come up with this "foolish" term?

 

Epic fail is an internet me-me and I posted it because of you talking about my 'well known blunder' - hahahah. My links were to my personal opinions, you cannot prove they're false.

 

> Its not that you are correcting...its the way in which you correct. You dont provide a proper and valid comparison between the two operating systems...you just go online....find some random site that says something postitive about Windows (about its memory usage or otherwise), and then come back here in a blatent attempt to prove others wrong. While there is nothing wrong in that, You should also provide some insights into the conclusions the article presented and whether or not it was properly conducted.

 

They're not random sites, they're either popular, well regarded, or something else. Also, do you not find random sites also ? Oh the hypocrisy. /falls back

 

If you read the links they don't simply make some rosy statement about something positive regarding Windows, they use facts and so on.

 

> Actually yes it does. If someone constantly downplays OS X and Macs...but fails to even utter a word about Microsoft's wrongdoings unless forced to....that does infact mean the individual has a particular biasness towards Windows. Notice how I'm no longer calling or using the term "fanboy".

 

No, no it doesn't. I do not constantly downplay OSX or Macs and I uttered, and will continue to utter, many words about things I do not like regarding Microsoft. If I choose to only address things about one particular OS which are not positive (And I have not done this) it does not automatically mean that I love whatever is not being mentioned.

 

Considering how you've failed to grasp most of this is about my opinion and the difference between "you're" and "your" I am not suprised.

 

You finally stopped saying fanboy, amazing.

 

> When the features are all industry standard, and some even next gen (802.11n), then calling it bloatware is incorrect. Just because YOU dont use the features, dont generalize. Secondly, your argument is severely flawed when you constantly compare custom built PC's to those sold in retail by Apple, Dell, Hp, etc, etc. Please, stop restating the obvious. Its a fact yes, that custom built PC's are always cheaper...HENCE WHY I HAVE A CUSTOM BUILT PC for gaming...you KEEP on ignoring this fact. Why so? Just because Apple does not offer extremely cheap and old generation hardware does not mean you can use the excuse of "tell me why I should be forced to pay extras". If you dont want it..then good, keep on moving to a Dell or any other PC. Apple mostly only offers medium to high hardware configs...not the low end one, which is why it looks like Apple is always more expensive than the other PC makers, when in fact it is because Apple does not offer cheap products with crippled hardware to begin with.

 

I wasn't generalising and I have no idea how you still cannot figure out that I'm talking about myself and not the industry as aw hole.

 

A custom built PC doesn't automatically mean it's low-end and I bet most PCs built by enthusiats like myself are vastly more higher-spec than the various iMac models.

 

Why can't you realise that I've only been talking about myself in regards to price, how can you not get this, HOW ?!!?

 

Hahah, crippled hardware ? Look how you're talking, you're saying/implying others hardware is 'crippled' (So, is the exact same CPU in a Dell crippled compared to the exact same one in a Mac ?), low-quality, blah blah.

 

Why are you arguing against my opinion and what's best for me ? What is wrong with you ?

 

> Personal preference, therfore I cant comment nor argue on that. If thats what suits you well, then its fine. However all Macs come with USB 2.0 ports as well...so your not limited.

 

Oh dear me. Basically everything in the past few posts has been my personal preference yet that hasn't stopped you. In fact, the post which sparked this was me saying what my personal preference was to server OS' and hardware, so, the whole time your little tirade has been ranting against my personal opinion/preference/scenario, etc.

 

I never said I was limited in regards to USB ports.

 

> Actually, almost all of the PC makers nowadays cheap out in providing the operating system for restore purposes. The ONLY maker I still know who provide the full Windows operating system (what ever version) for restore or reinstall purposes is Dell. Hp has a recovery partition, however does not provide an actual recovery disk. Same with Sony, Acer, and Gateway, from what I have seen. Secondly, you do not have to repurchase OS X either..it comes with the Mac, the full version, so I dont know what your argument here even is.

 

There is no argument, that's the thing. You're attacking my coment about not having to re-buy software when I buy a new PC because I already own it.

 

> What the heck are you rambling about? Yes the iMacs use the Mobility Radeon X1600, and yes, incase you never knew, that IS a laptop card. The iMac is more or less a laptop on stands with a much bigger widescreen. SO what was your argument here anyways...your very much sounding unclear.

 

I said prove that the iMac has a mobility card because on the site it does not say mobility yet on the Macbook page it explicitly says mobility and I imagine Apple would want to mention that on the iMac page.

 

And I was mocking your "information finding skillz."

 

> Do you have any idea what the hell your even talking about? Your stating the obvious...again. Grow up, and stop using the term "epic fail". You sound way to childish every time you say that. Seriously.

 

I sound childish, do I ? Hey, read these comments by another person:

 

- starting intimately having some virtual inter windows fanboysim

- your Ballmer brainwashed mind into play

- Billy and his shouldered parrot Ballmer would be proud of you

- the next sexiest thing coming straight and raw from Ballmer's arse.

 

I wonder who is childish.

 

> Again, if you are talking about yourself...then DONT COMPARE to begin with.

 

Err, Apple sells computers, right ? And they want people to buy them.. right ? So, I buy computers so I'm in their market, directly or not.

 

So, I look at all the viable ways to get a PC and compare them to figure out what's my best choice and it happens to be that building my own PC is the better choice than buying one from Apple or Dell.

 

I can compare, you just don't like me doing it because it makes Apple look like they have a shortcoming in a certain market and it does indeed show they're expensive in a certain regard (And I never claimed they were expensive in every way).

 

> Oh, lol, trust me, its not just 2 or 3 people. wink_anim.gif . Just look back in every thread you've posted in. Because you fail to defend your arguments...thats the point. You can say vista isnt just XP with eye candy...but what have you done to support and defend that statement? You should point of the downsides..if you dont want to be considered as as well...you know. Windows does have its downsides, so please, dont ignore them. Its one thing if you say no, windows has such and such features...but if you dont have the equality to say..."however, there are some aspects" and so on. Then you can close your statement by saying "however, I still prefer windows, becuase that suits me fine"...and thats it, NO ONE would argue against that (including me). Thats a perfectly acceptable response. However you never do that. Instead you do this:

 

No, I've proved it several times: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_windows_vista

 

Also, if the instance requires disproving of someone claiming that Vista is just XP with eye candy there is no written or even unwritten law that requires me pointing out downsides just to help the ego of the person being shown how ridiculous their comment was.

 

Let me emphasize that, there is no written/unwritten law which requires me to say a negative for every 'positive' thing (And proving someone wrong doesn't make it a positive thing) and no one else seems to follow this imaginary rule, why should I ?

 

Also, those quotes are simply taken out of context and have more or less nothing to do with whether Windows is good or not, those were about sales if IIRC.

 

> http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/reference...tackSurface.pdf

 

From what I quickly read this 42 page report is the one which was shown to be stupid, inaccurate, FUD and many other things. The whole premise, IIRC, was Symantec saying "There's a new network stack so it's like bad lolz" and even MS haters laughed at them.

 

Around that time Symantec was posting a lot of FUD about Vista security and so on.

 

Also, I am not going to read 42 pages so you need to quote your sources for claiming:

 

a) XP viruses work on Vista

:censored2: Vista isn't stable

 

I don't think that report covered either of those, did it ? Also, you claim the info is readily available on the internet so this should be a quick and easy task.

 

> 1. Thats a personal opinion

2. That can at most only apply to desktops, not laptops. It is possible to custom build a laptop...but its difficulty level is extremely high.

 

GOD ALMIGHTY, IT ONLY TOOK YOU ~ 4 MASSIVE POSTS TO FREAKING REALISE THAT.

 

> Yes, building your own PC is the best choice, I agree with you on that 100% RobotSkip, however you cannot compare that to retail PC's. Not everyone has the knowhow to bulld their own PC's...for starters.

 

[i'm not bloody talking about everyone, I'm talking about my own damn self, how the hell can you not figure this out by now ? WHAT THE HELL ?!

 

And as I've said so many damn times, I buy PCs so I consider every option so I damn well can and will compare buying a PC from a retail store, building my own, buying one from Ebay, stealing one or whatever.[/color

 

> Common, are you serious? You Actually expect a multibillion dollar company to bend over and create a brand new comptuer family, just so they can satisfy 4000 somewhat individuals out of the 20 million of the total userbase? Seriously, you have to start thinking beyond that angle...think from the perspective of Apple. Apple has done things from popular demands, such as adding the Firewire 800 port to the Macbook Pro, due to popular customer requests. See, they do it..when its economically fine, however creating a new Mac family....is not as easy as it sounds. smile.gif Doing that is like asking Dell to make the XPS line cheap, becuase they now own Alienware...so why do they need to have 2 high end gaming sectors? Its becuase Dell is too far in the game to do that to the XPS line.

 

Nope, I never said I did. I said they do not care about the market that I am but I never said I expected them to cater to it, I said it would be nice though. Hell, I point that out in the next part which you quoted.

 

> It would draw sales from the iMac becuase thats currently their best selling midstream desktop product. Sure there will be another option, however the population will tend to switch products, essentially draining the sales of the iMac. However, this might never happen, as its only a prediction, but it sounds the most possible route.

 

Why would the population switch from iMacs to a totally-choose-every-part-yourself-Mac ?

 

> Well, I cant do anything about that. You wanted to know if it was possible, and I said yes, and showed you the evidence. I can understand where you coming from though. But I made is clear that it is infact possible to do.

 

If you're going to attack my personal preference you better damn well cater to it and not post some stupid comparison which has no effect on me whatsoever.

 

You never showed how it was possible for me to build a decent Mac for a good price and you completely ignored everything in that part about Australian pricing and so on.

 

YOU CAN'T JUST PICK RANDOM LINES OF MINE AND ATTACK THEM HOW YOU PLEASE.

 

> I think we can atleast agree on the fact that NO one is perfect. smile.gif . That being said, Apple's hardware quality is definately on the higher grounds, when compared to the other PC manufacuters...as proven from the last link I gave you.

 

And I never said Apple's quality was bad and the only reason I even bothered to comment on hardware quality was because you made an un-needed attack on companies like Dell, HP and so on.

 

> Well, the data recovery company is using X Serves' on raids, and those are their clients. This essentially means that the clients use the XServe albeit indirectly, for backup/recovery solutions.

 

Hahahahahah, no, just freaking no. You have to find companies which themselves have bought and use XServers, not some ridiculous relationship between some company which occasionally does data recovery.

 

Also, they do many things such as password recovery, computer forensics, SAN data recovery, RAID data recovery, secure erasing, tape duplication, media duplicatrion and so on, so how do you know every client on that page was related to them recovering data on XServers ?

 

> Lol, now you are blaming me for not providing a proper evidence? Common...you wanted proof that Apple has higher quality hardware, and I showed you the proof. You are always dismissing any proof that I give you, and it just looks wrong on your part.

 

No, I admitted the link you provided but I said that a user vote on a single site is not very dooming.

 

> Your too vague here...could you explain that in a little more detal as what you are trying to convey/or imply?

 

Simply me mocking you for attempting to attack/mock me about my 'well known blunder.' Why ? Well, if you're going to say something like "No you weren't..stop trying to hide your well known blunder" I'm going to bury you into the ground, Ender style.

 

> I did. wink_anim.gif

 

No, you posted a comparison done by someone self which has nothing to do with me, for starters it wasn't even in Australian prices.

 

> Your comparison never showed that the Dell was a cheaper and a better choice. Its entire hardware was basic...how is that a valid comparison to a a Mac?

 

Because when I buy a new computer/upgrade I more or less never have to think about software because I already own everything I need or the software is free.

 

> You prefer to use Windows.....I prefer to use OS X. Its as simple as that.

 

No and just freaking no, stop trying to portray me to suit your petty posts.

 

I prefer Windows.. VISTA, but I prefer OSX over XP. Don't twist my damn words.

 

----

 

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, THIS WHOLE THING STARTED FROM YOU PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH (THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT GAMING WHEN I WASN'T) AND YOU TRYING TO DISPROVE MY OPINION AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I BUY/UPGRADE A PC.

 

SO BASICALLY EVERY DAMN THING YOU'VE SAID IS A RIDICULOUS WASTE OF TIME AND YOU FAILED TO REALISE THAT EVERYTHING WAS ABOUT MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

 

So, I'm going to say what I originally said, again:

*BSD > Linux > Windows > Mac OS

 

That's my preference with servers but I would almost -never- bother with Mac OS because it requires me buying Mac(s) which is bad enough for a desktop PC but I could never consider it for a server (For various reasons). I'm sure they're solid servers, just not the right choice for me and probably most others.

 

Thank goodness there is an intelligent discussion for once without the usual people accusing me, track09 and others of being fanboys. Thank you EFI and others.

Macs are expensive to me when building my own server or desktop.

 

There, there is nothing you can say till you can show me how I can build a Mac which is a similar price to a PC I build and has comparable hardware.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You better damn well prove me wrong on everything I've said or make a good apology.

 

I've countered basically everything you've said and you've failed to counter barely anything I've said.

[BlackShadowWolf]

Sweet Jesus you two, you both are arguing over something so stupid. Just let it go, or duke it out in Halo or Unreal Tournament

 

You both are very expressive with your opinions which is really good, you just need to find a better way to express them rather than arguing over very large posts .

[EFI]

Firstly...im not going to apologize for anything, OK? Secondly, if its your personal opinion, then say IN MY FREAKIN OPINION next time...in that exact form, not in an abstract way which you later say "oh look, but I said all this was my opinion". And thirdly, all this boils down to this:

You prefer to use Windows Vista over OS X, and I prefer to use OS X over Windows There...does that sound like a valid of a conclusion?...or are you going to find a flaw in that as well?

[RobNyc]

Vista = sucks