Windows Vista

[Alessandro17]

To each his own I suppose. But to put someone on ignore and say they're not even worthy to refute their argument really shows that you can't refute it. It's the equivalent of saying lalalalalalala with your ears plugged.

 

You missed my point altogether.

I never ignore human beings, normally. But when all you get is insults instead of a civilized discussion, there is nothing else

left. That is true everywhere, not just in a forum.

As to being capable of refuting, arguing my point of view, I have proven more than enough that I can do that quite well.

I don't need to prove it again.

[pyrates]

You missed my point altogether.

I never ignore human beings, normally. But when all you get is insults instead of a civilized discussion, there is nothing else

left. That is true everywhere, not just in a forum.

As to being capable of refuting, arguing my point of view, I have proven more than enough that I can do that quite well.

I don't need to prove it again.

 

Well then educate me. If you claim to have proved it, repeat your argument. I'm waiting. And why don't you take that other nick name off ignore that you claimed to have refuted?

[Alessandro17]

If you claim to have proved it, repeat your argument. I'm waiting. Well then educate me.

 

You missed my point again.

I have proven that I can argue my points of view in general, not necessarily regarding this case.

So all you have to do is to read my past posts.

[Metrogirl]

Guys, listen for a moment. This thread is about Windows Vista and not about who is right or whose point is better. Those arguments go on for ever and they are off-topic. Last warning - get back to the point or this thread will be closed.

[Alessandro17]

Guys, listen for a moment. This thread is about Windows Vista and not about who is right or whose point is better. Those arguments go on for ever and they are off-topic. Last warning - get back to the point or this thread will be closed.

 

I apologize, Metrogirl, but I can't stand being abused by anybody. Maybe from now on I should avoid any Microsoft thread like the black plague.

And IMO, a Mac site is the last place where you should be abused by Microsoft zealots.

 

BTW, I love your Microsoft Vacuum Cleaner ad.

[DC2BAR]

The main thing i absolutely love about vista over my existing linux/xp editions is the multimedia integration. You can call me a shill all you want, but i personally have an xbox 360 in the living room and a laptop as a media center extender in the bedroom. It makes life a lot more convienent when i can just have vista act as a main media server for the whole house. Media Center 2005 had the same capabilites, but with vista's updated media center it just seems a bit more user friendly to me.

 

Other than that, i don't really care about any of the other new features. UAC is nice, to keep an edge on security i suppose, Ready boost is a nice way to quicken up your system, but Aero is pretty dumb, i've been doing that with windowsblinds forever, the sidebar (on my system, anyway 1 gig of ddr2) eats all of my memory, and luckily i haven't had any compatibility problems yet except vista won't recognize my 5 year old camcorder.

 

Oh, last thing, dreamscapes is kind of cool, animated wallpaper, can set movies, even =)

Edited March 8, 2007 by DC2BAR

[Zealot]

Today i have just installed Vista Bussines 32bits(original with license box and all, not joking here) in two pcs both with p4 old 1.8 and both with asrock mobo 768 mb Ram,integrated graphics.Not exacly a big piece of equipment .

 

PC n1:

-first i have to delete daemon tools and nero burning room because the instalation sayd it might be a problem but it was not necesary to delete them ,i did it anyway so i can be sure.

-Finished the instalation, it took like 1 hour and 25 minutes.Ofcourse the drivers didnt work so the graphics side (flip 3d ,and stuff disabled).

It was mostly a clean instalation .

 

Pc n2:

 

-After installing ,Btw reboots like 5 or six times ,in the last rebooting it sayd something about the invalid Cpu ...x23 'CANCEL' or 'KEEP GOING',KEEP GOING ( cant remember exacly the option).than gui.Mission acomplished.

 

Now my opinion: It has 2 verification of the compatibility at the begginning and at the very end before the desktop apears, didnt like the proces of instalation because it has too many reboots and all that we all hate ,i mean standing in front of the computer withouth knowing if with the next click it will appear another loading bar .

On the other hand i was nicely surpriced by its network abilities and the automatic detection of a workgroup wich at work its was very painfull with xp .I think at least in the Vista Business version it is very easy to work with many pcs using a network connection compared with what it was on Xp.

So at least its network gets my vote.

 

Just want to add some facts .Keep it clear fellas.

Edited March 9, 2007 by Zealot

[pyrates]

Lets go over this shall we:

 

Alessandro17 claimed vista sales were down.

 

Robotskip proved that was wrong because Alessandro17 was only measuring retail sales.

 

Alessandro17 calls Robotskip ignorant and a M$ zealot.

 

Robotskip counters by defining what ignorant means to show that Alessandro17 is in fact ignorant because anything that makes Apple look bad is unacceptable to him.

 

Alessandro17 then refuses to refute anything Robotskip says and just ignores him.

 

Whose the bigger zealot here I wonder? Certainly not Robotskip. And I wouldn't call this abuse exactly. More like Alessandro17 being proven wrong and not being able to handle it.

 

Today i have just installed Vista Bussines 32bits(original with license box and all, not joking here) in two pcs both with p4 old 1.8 and both with asrock mobo 768 mb Ram,integrated graphics.Not exacly a big piece of equipment .

 

PC n1:

-first i have to delete daemon tools and nero burning room because the instalation sayd it might be a problem but it was not necesary to delete them ,i did it anyway so i can be sure.

-Finished the instalation, it took like 1 hour and 25 minutes.Ofcourse the drivers didnt work so the graphics side (flip 3d ,and stuff disabled).

It was mostly a clean instalation .

 

Pc n2:

 

-After installing ,Btw reboots like 5 or six times ,in the last rebooting it sayd something about the invalid Cpu ...x23 'CANCEL' or 'KEEP GOING',KEEP GOING ( cant remember exacly the option).than gui.Mission acomplished.

 

Now my opinion: It has 2 verification of the compatibility at the begginning and at the very end before the desktop apears, didnt like the proces of instalation because it has too many reboots and all that we all hate ,i mean standing in front of the computer withouth knowing if with the next click it will appear another loading bar .

On the other hand i was nicely surpriced by its network abilities and the automatic detection of a workgroup wich at work its was very painfull with xp .I think at least in the Vista Business version it is very easy to work with many pcs using a network connection compared with what it was on Xp.

So at least its network gets my vote.

 

Just want to add some facts .Keep it clear fellas.

 

I highly suggest a clean install next time. You'll have much less problems then.

[Alessandro17]

Lets go over this shall we:

 

Alessandro17 claimed vista sales were down.

 

Robotskip proved that was wrong because Alessandro17 was only measuring retail sales.

 

Alessandro17 calls Robotskip ignorant and a M$ zealot.

 

Robotskip counters by defining what ignorant means to show that Alessandro17 is in fact ignorant because anything that makes Apple look bad is unacceptable to him.

 

Alessandro17 then refuses to refute anything Robotskip says and just ignores him.

 

Links please to prove you ridiculous claims, as in some cases it was just the opposite.

 

Metrogirl, do you see what I mean now?

[Zealot]

This will be more easy to talk if we let the, Bs, fanboys, hateboys and "i want to win the discusion boys" out.

 

Could we please move on with this thing.

 

Zealot.

 

gt.

Edited March 9, 2007 by Zealot

[darthfrodo04]

Yes zealot, I agree, lets move on.

 

In my expirence with installing Vista, I have found it much easier to install if you are able to do a clean install. Not only does this avoid program complications, but you iTunes will work. (Just remember to deauthorize your account from other computers if needed).

 

I am in charge of my schools MSDN subscription, so we have the RTM Install disc. This is nice because it has the capability to install all the different types of Vista from one disc. Downside is that we only have a licenses for Buisness. But we can still install the other ones, but they expire after 30 days. Still, its nice to see what they are like. I myself have only tried Buisness and Ultimate.

 

 

I do think that Vista networking tools are alot easier to use than those of XP. Also, since I help manage the computers at my school, the quick install time (I know, Mac already had that). This makes my life happier, expecially since it doesn't require me to sit around waiting for a settings screen to pop up part way through, as with XP.

 

The main thing that bugs me about Vista is that it is SUCH a RAM hog. running 1gig of ram, it takes up much more than XP just running the operating system. And hibernation seems to take quite a while, but that may just be my system. I also agree that the Aero feature isn't that inovative, and that 3D-Flip is sorta pointless.

 

Overall, I am hoping that some of the issues will eventually work themselves out. Well just have to see.

[pyrates]

Links please to prove you ridiculous claims, as in some cases it was just the opposite.

 

Metrogirl, do you see what I mean now?

 

That sales data only included retail sales. It didn't include people buying new pc's. Once you add that up, it is doing just fine. See here. But nowhere else do I see someone in a debate put someone on ignore claiming abuse other then a mac fanboy.

 

Yes zealot, I agree, lets move on.

 

In my expirence with installing Vista, I have found it much easier to install if you are able to do a clean install. Not only does this avoid program complications, but you iTunes will work. (Just remember to deauthorize your account from other computers if needed).

 

I am in charge of my schools MSDN subscription, so we have the RTM Install disc. This is nice because it has the capability to install all the different types of Vista from one disc. Downside is that we only have a licenses for Buisness. But we can still install the other ones, but they expire after 30 days. Still, its nice to see what they are like. I myself have only tried Buisness and Ultimate.

I do think that Vista networking tools are alot easier to use than those of XP. Also, since I help manage the computers at my school, the quick install time (I know, Mac already had that). This makes my life happier, expecially since it doesn't require me to sit around waiting for a settings screen to pop up part way through, as with XP.

 

The main thing that bugs me about Vista is that it is SUCH a RAM hog. running 1gig of ram, it takes up much more than XP just running the operating system. And hibernation seems to take quite a while, but that may just be my system. I also agree that the Aero feature isn't that inovative, and that 3D-Flip is sorta pointless.

 

Overall, I am hoping that some of the issues will eventually work themselves out. Well just have to see.

 

Part of the reason why vista appears to use more ram is because it caches more. See here for an explanation.

[Wolf_Hook]

Hi,

 

I have been using Vista ultimate for just over a week now and I really like the look of it.

 

I installed because I am soon to switch to a Mac and wanted to give my PC a decent send off, so far it hasn't been too much of a hassle but it does seem to lag an awful lot (might have a look at the above link posted). I have 1.5 GB of RAM and if I wasn't saving cash to buy a Mac then I would splash out on another GB stick.

 

I haven't had any major problems so far but I have the same lock-ups from time to time and my printer no longer works. I have a mindset now that I will be using OS X soon so I have no intention of really trying to get into Vista but since I work for a large PC distribution company it helps to learn how to get around in this short period of time.

 

To sum up, I don't hate Vista but to quote Bertrand Serlet "It's still Windows".

Edited March 10, 2007 by Wolf_Hook

[UK31337]

I had Vista Business as a free MSDNAA download through my University licensing scheme.

 

Sure, it looked great. Better than OSX in some ways, I honestly thought. However, it was filled with tedious slowdowns, bugs, annoyances, niggling inconsistencies with the way things were done...

 

For example, on XP if you press Ctrl-Alt-Del it either loads Task Manager or the 6-button Windows security dialogue. Both were quick in an emergency. Vista defaults to a bloaty, full-screen, all graphical security dialogue which crashes your machine further if you're trying to get to Task Manager to stop a crashed program which is killing your system. That was ultra annoying and unnecessary - where was the standard non-bloaty version?. Also prone to nasty lockups, which weren't hardware problems because XP ran flawlessly (the machine was a dualboot). Bloatiness aside, it ran near perfectly with 1GB RAM.

 

Also, the really poorly built UAC. All it does is dim the screen and come up with a dialogue box asking you to Continue or Cancel, exactly like the Mac ad with the 3 guys in it. Pretty much does it for simple things like the start menu or editing advanced display settings. Turn it off, and you're back to the traditional full-admin rights over everything mode like in XP Home (Pro was a good deal more secure and configurable). Hello, virus.

 

Bleh. I'm sick of Windows and Linux (pain in the a$$ - I'm a compsci student and even I'm not enough of a geek to be bothered typing one bazillion terminal commands just to do something basic, with absolutely no guarantee whatsoever it'll work at the end of it all).

 

Because of this and my extensive use of Macs, I'm thinking of getting one myself

[track09]

Since people refuse to read the Fing articles, I'll translate.

 

CPU Cycle Counting

What this roughly does is that there was a vast improvement in the CPU cycling of threads, optimizing Vista's kernel for dual core.

 

Multimedia Class Scheduler Service

Allows applications to use registry keys namely for media playback, to pre-allocate certain resources, and keep them at a certain priority, so that media playback won't take a hit when other applications are running, and a media player gets added. This, is used in Windows media player 11 (vista only, obviously), and when something is running, and WMP gets loaded on a modern machine, it's almost impossible to get playback to studder. Mac OS X can take a lesson from this one.

 

I/O Completion and Cancellation

A complete redo of the cancellation/completion server application system, where there's less communication needed to complete an action.

 

I/O Priority

Gives priority to applications and the system over various hardware devices. Self explanitory, and the benefits should be obvious. OS X, can again, improve here.

 

Also included:

Memory Priorities

SuperFetch - VISTA is not a memory hog, this is where it's proven that it uses free ram, which linux has known for years, free ram is wasted ram, let the system use it instead of cache it

ReadyBoost - You should know the benefits of this

ReadyBoot

ReadyDrive

Startup Processes - Runs system processes in one namespace, and all other processes in a seperate namespace, under a seperate service. Beneficial to speed/secuirty/stability and more. Another lesson OS X could take.

Credential Providers - Better logon

Delayed-Autostart Services - "If you've ever logged onto a Windows system immediately after it starts, you've probably experienced delays before your desktop is fully configured and you can interact with the shell and any applications you launch. While you're logging on, the Service Control Manager is starting the many Windows services that are configured as automatic start services and therefore activate at boot time. Many services perform CPU and disk-intensive initializations that compete with your logon activities. To accommodate this, Windows Vista introduces a new service start type called delayed automatic start, which services can use if they don't have to be active immediately after Windows boots.The Service Control Manager starts services configured for delayed automatic start after the automatic-start services have finished starting and it sets the priority of their initial thread to THREAD_PRIORITY_LOWEST. This priority level causes all the disk I/O the thread performs to be Very Low I/O priority. After a service finishes initializing, the Service Control Manager sets its priority to normal. The combination of the delayed start, low CPU and memory priority, and background disk priority greatly reduce interference with a user's logon. Many Windows services, including Background Intelligent Transfer, Windows Update Client, and Windows Media^® Center, use the new start type to help improve the performance of logons after a boot"

Shutdown - Completely redone for better data security, and faster shutdown times

Power Management - Brilliant, tells drivers what's going on, but doesn't ask for permission.

Kernel Transaction Manager

Enhanced Crash Support

Volume Shadow Copy

BitLocker

Code Integrity Verification

Address Space Load Randomization

Service Security Improvements

 

 

Some higher level stuff

Aero. The old GDI/GDI+ was replaced by a new DWM.exe, accelerated graphics module. A complete rework of the graphics. Instead of drawing to the screen, it draws geometrically off screen, and then displays on screen.

Explorer and Internet Explorer are no longer integrated.

UAC, love it or hate it, it helps.

Index Search

Windows Sidebar

All the included Windows apps, such as photo gallery and MM (although not as good, they're free, not like iLife)

IPv6

DirectX 10, clearly revolutionary for a graphics API, pulling further ahead from OpenGL., and where Directinput has been replaced with Xinput, and Directsound replaced with Xact, the largest revision to DirectX yet.

Full Vector Icons to 256x256

Windows Imaging Component - New Image API

Windows Mobility Center

New Network Stack

New Audio stack, with unique control of seperate applications, also departing from the Directsound standard.

 

Hmm, yea, this is just a warmed over Xp to me. Yep, there's nothing new here. Maybe because Microsoft decided to work on performance, rather than do the steve jobs demo that looks nice, but iMovie still crashes on random DV files, and bugs with responsiveness are still there since OS X 10.0 when it was on PowerPC.

 

"For example, on XP if you press Ctrl-Alt-Del it either loads Task Manager or the 6-button Windows security dialogue. Both were quick in an emergency. Vista defaults to a bloaty, full-screen, all graphical security dialogue which crashes your machine further if you're trying to get to Task Manager to stop a crashed program which is killing your system. That was ultra annoying and unnecessary - where was the standard non-bloaty version?. Also prone to nasty lockups, which weren't hardware problems because XP ran flawlessly (the machine was a dualboot). Bloatiness aside, it ran near perfectly with 1GB RAM."

Vista runs perfectly on my 1G of ram. Guess what else, there's a way to disable that screen, which is there for a good reason, and never acts up, if you know how it works. google around.

 

"Also, the really poorly built UAC. All it does is dim the screen and come up with a dialogue box asking you to Continue or Cancel, exactly like the Mac ad with the 3 guys in it. Pretty much does it for simple things like the start menu or editing advanced display settings. Turn it off, and you're back to the traditional full-admin rights over everything mode like in XP Home (Pro was a good deal more secure and configurable). Hello, virus."

 

It's actually well built, and it is far from that ad, stop falling into Steve Job's iDistort field. It's far from that overbearing for me, and I have no problems, and no reason to disable it. OS X and Linux are just the same way when copying files and the like. Stop being a tool. Are you using the same Vista as me?

 

"Bleh. I'm sick of Windows and Linux (pain in the a$$ - I'm a compsci student and even I'm not enough of a geek to be bothered typing one bazillion terminal commands just to do something basic, with absolutely no guarantee whatsoever it'll work at the end of it all)."

 

Well yea, you know, with a Mac, you just do what Steve Jobbs tells you, and that's it. No need to configure, what you see is all you can do.

 

Now I sit back and wait for allesandro to say

"You're typical of an MS fanboy, Vista is teh SP3zorz lolz."

[UK31337]

"Stop being a tool. Are you using the same Vista as me?"

 

Vista Business MSDNAA download, that's what I've got. Dunno what you've got; you never said. In my experience, it is just like that ad. I got it popping up when I opened Command Prompt once (didn't even run any commands), again when I tried to change my output monitor on a dualscreen, and also when I changed Parental Controls on iTunes. Also when changing Windows Update settings, running MMC, Group Policy... ... ... my account is in the Adminstrators user group as well. Why not just rip UNIX completely and have a whole separate root login?

 

It did get annoying. Why's there the extra bloat of blanking the screen momentarily, and then reloading it with the background faded out? Why not just pop up a box asking Yes/No immediately, without all that? "I have no problems" - you seem like a right charmer. You don't have any problems and you're not annoyed, so nobody else should be either? Who's the tool now?

 

"Vista is the SP3zorz" Exactly, SP3. That's how long it's going to take before Vista will be fine for everyday use. The slowdowns and lockups are unbearable, it's just a slow OS. And I was running it freshly installed on a £2000 ($4000 USD) test rig we use at work.

 

I'm sick of Windows after 13 solid years. And no, we don't do what Steve Jobs tells us, we buy a quality product with a well-built, solid UNIX based OS which is pretty much everything-proof straight out of the box. The average Joe home user doesn't know how to configure Windows for security, it's poorly configured straight off.

[track09]

"Stop being a tool. Are you using the same Vista as me?"

 

Vista Business MSDNAA download, that's what I've got. Dunno what you've got; you never said. In my experience, it is just like that ad. I got it popping up when I opened Command Prompt once (didn't even run any commands), again when I tried to change my output monitor on a dualscreen, and also when I changed Parental Controls on iTunes. Also when changing Windows Update settings, running MMC, Group Policy... ... ... my account is in the Adminstrators user group as well. Why not just rip UNIX completely and have a whole separate root login?

 

It did get annoying. Why's there the extra bloat of blanking the screen momentarily, and then reloading it with the background faded out? Why not just pop up a box asking Yes/No immediately, without all that? "I have no problems" - you seem like a right charmer. You don't have any problems and you're not annoyed, so nobody else should be either? Who's the tool now?

 

"Vista is the SP3zorz" Exactly, SP3. That's how long it's going to take before Vista will be fine for everyday use. The slowdowns and lockups are unbearable, it's just a slow OS. And I was running it freshly installed on a £2000 ($4000 USD) test rig we use at work.

 

I'm sick of Windows after 13 solid years. And no, we don't do what Steve Jobs tells us, we buy a quality product with a well-built, solid UNIX based OS which is pretty much everything-proof straight out of the box. The average Joe home user doesn't know how to configure Windows for security, it's poorly configured straight off.

 

 

So you're saying IM a tool because I have an objective view and I'm not pissed off about Vista? OS X is a solid OS, but Apple's hardware is {censored}, and that's reason enough not to buy it. The slowdowns and lockups just aren't unbearable, if they were, it wouldn't have been released. You're being a tool for saying, "O teh Vi$ta is Micro$hit, slow and lock up, ull need at least teh $P3 before it can be uasble"

[pyrates]

"Stop being a tool. Are you using the same Vista as me?"

 

Vista Business MSDNAA download, that's what I've got. Dunno what you've got; you never said. In my experience, it is just like that ad. I got it popping up when I opened Command Prompt once (didn't even run any commands), again when I tried to change my output monitor on a dualscreen, and also when I changed Parental Controls on iTunes. Also when changing Windows Update settings, running MMC, Group Policy... ... ... my account is in the Adminstrators user group as well. Why not just rip UNIX completely and have a whole separate root login?

 

Well all those things you talked about actually require administrative privileges. And remember even though you login as part of the administrators group, with uac on, you are given the token of a regular user. Hence why that does pop up. And the command prompt showing it, it would if you right clicked on it and chose run as administrator. But if you didn't do that, then check the properties of it in the compatibility tab to be sure you don't have it set to run as administrator automatically. But that is strange though since you can't do that with the command prompt. But I would guess that since you're running as the admin user, but on a regular user level with uac, that the command prompt doesn't work with that and forces you to run with the administrative level token. Guess there's a bug then you found in vista. Here's what you can do. Create a regular user and run your vista install from that. Much better then I find. Plus it's more secure because you have to put in the administrative user password every time, which is just like OS X and Linux.

 

But all those things you mentioned do require administrative privileges because they don't just effect your account, they effect the entire system. Understand yet? And as for that thing about iTunes, it was designed to be run as administrator, hence part of it needs a redesign. Just like many windows applications designed with that in mind do. And having a whole seprate root account does make sense in Windows Vista. And you can do that. Give the administrator user a password and then create your account as a regular user. Pretty easy to do.

 

It did get annoying. Why's there the extra bloat of blanking the screen momentarily, and then reloading it with the background faded out? Why not just pop up a box asking Yes/No immediately, without all that? "I have no problems" - you seem like a right charmer. You don't have any problems and you're not annoyed, so nobody else should be either? Who's the tool now?

 

There's a reason why UAC was designed that way. Take a read here and you'll find out why.

 

"Vista is the SP3zorz" Exactly, SP3. That's how long it's going to take before Vista will be fine for everyday use. The slowdowns and lockups are unbearable, it's just a slow OS. And I was running it freshly installed on a £2000 ($4000 USD) test rig we use at work.

 

If it's locking up for you, I would check the drivers that are installed for it, make sure they are up to date. System lock ups usually occur because of either bad hardware or bad drivers for the hardware. So try that. Make sure the drivers are for Vista and not just drivers that are for XP that seem to work on Vista. Also check event viewer in admin tools, that always helps.

 

I'm sick of Windows after 13 solid years. And no, we don't do what Steve Jobs tells us, we buy a quality product with a well-built, solid UNIX based OS which is pretty much everything-proof straight out of the box. The average Joe home user doesn't know how to configure Windows for security, it's poorly configured straight off.

 

I think turning UAC on by default, the firewall is on by default, and automatic updates is set to be on by default, is good in my mind. So where is Windows Vista bad for security exactly? Unless you are counting previous windows releases, yes they were bad since they didn't have UAC. But having something on by default is a good thing when it comes to security because you are right most users will not try to configure windows more securely. And Windows is definitely getting their.

[INFNITE]

been using Vista for the past 24 hours on Boot Camp, so far, it's been okay, nothing spectacular. Too many superficial changes (like the way display properties are handled) with little improvement in for ex multi-task management (flip 3d is a piece of junk) or the way Windows Explorer functions. Lots of eye candy, but it really isn't anything revolutionary and gets old quickly. It just feels as if M$ changed alot of things from XP just for the sake of changing while at the same time not putting an effort in to improve the ease of use of the OS. The addition of UAC certainly isn't helping things either, and it's just a pain in the rear end (is the screen dimming really necessary?). Very disappointed by the OS with all the hype it's been getting. It's not revolutionary, and it's more like a bloated extension of XP. With 6 years of development, you certainly expect more improvements than this.

[track09]

been using Vista for the past 24 hours on Boot Camp, so far, it's been okay, nothing spectacular. Too many superficial changes (like the way display properties are handled) with little improvement in for ex multi-task management (flip 3d is a piece of junk) or the way Windows Explorer functions. Lots of eye candy, but it really isn't anything revolutionary and gets old quickly. It just feels as if M$ changed alot of things from XP just for the sake of changing while at the same time not putting an effort in to improve the ease of use of the OS. The addition of UAC certainly isn't helping things either, and it's just a pain in the rear end (is the screen dimming really necessary?). Very disappointed by the OS with all the hype it's been getting. It's not revolutionary, and it's more like a bloated extension of XP. With 6 years of development, you certainly expect more improvements than this.

 

READ MY DAMN ABOVE POST. God DAMNIT!

 

 

Anyway, one thing my above post didn't mention, the UAC dimms the screen to prevent trojans from tricking people by using that screen feature. Steve Gibson said it in security now,

[jglavin]

Whatever we think of it, we'll all upgrade one day or another. Once all the software gets refreshed and drivers sorted it'll be just fine and everyone will move on. Wish they didn't change the control panels around, though. What a pain! After 10 or so XP installs over a few boxes/hard drive upgrades/f***king it up for one reason or another, I've got the initial sequence of settings changes and personalization down to a routine. No more.

 

But even the differing control panel is a little more logical and probably a change for the better.

 

I guess my standpoint is that the OS is annoying now but in time it'll grow on me. I'm trying to think if there was such a break-in period with XP tho, and I don't seem to remember it. Oh yeah, heh... it was called "Windows 2000."

[track09]

Whatever we think of it, we'll all upgrade one day or another. Once all the software gets refreshed and drivers sorted it'll be just fine and everyone will move on. Wish they didn't change the control panels around, though. What a pain! After 10 or so XP installs over a few boxes/hard drive upgrades/f***king it up for one reason or another, I've got the initial sequence of settings changes and personalization down to a routine. No more.

 

But even the differing control panel is a little more logical and probably a change for the better.

 

I guess my standpoint is that the OS is annoying now but in time it'll grow on me. I'm trying to think if there was such a break-in period with XP tho, and I don't seem to remember it. Oh yeah, heh... it was called "Windows 2000."

 

 

Yea, when all the compatibility issues are sorted out, Vista will be very nice. Xp had a small break in for home users, as some old scanners and printers didn't have NT drivers. I only got Vista early because I'm a geek, and I like to adopt it early. I love my experiences, but some non-techies may get a little frustrated (As on any platform really). OS X sort of forces users to upgrade more. (Not a big deal, either).

[cringemaster]

"O teh Vi$ta is Micro$hit, slow and lock up, ull need at least teh $P3 before it can be uasble"

 

Wow, one thing youve said that actually makes sense

 

OS X is a solid OS, but Apple's hardware is {censored}, and that's reason enough not to buy it.

 

Apple's hardware is {censored}? Thats {censored}. Apple Hardware is teh {censored}!

 

Proof? Look on ebay for used Powerbook G3's They still get resale values of around $400 USD0. Look at a comparable PC laptop from around the same time. There is now way some Dell, Compaq, or IBM laptop is gonna hold its value as well as a Mac. okay, slightly off-topic.

[AppleMacintosh]

Apple's hardware is {censored}? Thats {censored}. Apple Hardware is teh {censored}!

 

Proof? Look on ebay for used Powerbook G3's They still get resale values of around $400 USD0. Look at a comparable PC laptop from around the same time. There is now way some Dell, Compaq, or IBM laptop is gonna hold its value as well as a Mac. okay, slightly off-topic.

 

 

I own a G3 iMac, and will hopefully soon move to a full current generation Mac. What I love about macs is how nice they look. Power is not completely important to me, as much as experience. Apple uses quality parts inside, and they only make a few different models, so they're all designed well. They look well, and function well (quiet operation too).

 

What you said about the laptop is true too. Even though Xp has lower requirements than OS X, OS X on a G3 runs a lot nicer than Xp on a Pentium III. Plus, Apple laptops feel better, small, properly placed vents, well placed heat distribution, etc. Way more asthetics in the design, feels less like using a machine.

[pyrates]

I own a G3 iMac, and will hopefully soon move to a full current generation Mac. What I love about macs is how nice they look. Power is not completely important to me, as much as experience. Apple uses quality parts inside, and they only make a few different models, so they're all designed well. They look well, and function well (quiet operation too).

 

Well duh. If apple is the only one that makes it, of course it'll fetch a higher price. There's no competition for apple built computers. You can't go with an oem maker for mac's. You can with a PC though and thus why PC's lose their value faster because there is always something better to come along. Course now that mac's use basically the same hardware that PC's have been using, that could change.

 

What you said about the laptop is true too. Even though Xp has lower requirements than OS X, OS X on a G3 runs a lot nicer than Xp on a Pentium III. Plus, Apple laptops feel better, small, properly placed vents, well placed heat distribution, etc. Way more asthetics in the design, feels less like using a machine.

 

I've ran xp on a pentium III before and it ran just fine for me. Course I'd rather turn that into a linux server. Hence why I prefer PC's anyways. Once it is no longer my main pc, I turn it into a linux server.