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nForce OS X Snow Leopard (10.6) RETAIL INSTALL GUIDE on a Series 6 or 7 nForce chipset / Intel CPU MOBO


verdant
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Snow Leopard on nForce + Intel CPU MOBO in Desktop  

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  1. 1. Have you successfully installed a working, bootable Snow Leopard system?

    • Yes, on a Series 7 (750i, 780i, or 790i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using the USB flash drive installer method
      34
    • Yes, on a Series 6 (650i or 680i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using the USB flash drive installer method
      50
    • Yes, on a Series 6 (610i or 630i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using the USB flash drive installer method
      18
    • Yes, on a Series 7 (750i, 780i, or 790i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using verdant's nForceSLBoot132DVD installer method
      14
    • Yes, on a Series 6 (650i or 680i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using verdant's nForceSLBoot132DVD installer method
      13
    • Yes, on a Series 6 (610i or 630i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using verdant's nForceSLBoot132DVD installer method
      6
    • Yes, on a Series 7 (750i, 780i, or 790i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO using OSInstall.mpkg method from Leopard to another HDD/volume
      10
    • Yes, on a Series 6 (650i or 680i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using OSInstall.mpkg method from Leopard to another HDD/volume
      9
    • Yes, on a Series 6 (610i or 630i) nForce chipset Intel CPU MOBO, using OSInstall.mpkg method from Leopard to another HDD/volume
      8
    • No, none of the above methods has worked for me
      35
    • I have sold or plan to sell my nForce chipset MOBO to go over to the "light" side....Intel chipset MOBO.....
      10
    • I have sold or plan to sell my nForce chipset MOBO to buy a "real" Mac
      6
  2. 2. Would you say that your Snow Leopard system is working to your satisfaction (e.g. compared to Leopard)

    • 100%
      60
    • 90%
      53
    • 80%
      20
    • 70%
      19
    • 60%
      4
    • 50%
      6
    • <50%
      18
    • Are you running 10.6.1 successfully , having auto-updated without any problems
      21
    • Are all the standard Apple applications running OK
      12
  3. 3. Is your Snow Leopard system working 100% on

    • SATA HDD
      173
    • SATA DVDRW including burning disks
      47
    • PATA (IDE) HDD
      42
    • PATA (IDE) DVDRW including burning disks
      51
    • Video
      146
    • Onboard LAN (Ethernet)
      131
    • USB devices (mounting/unmounting), plus USB keyboard and USB mouse
      161
    • Firewire
      54
    • PS/2 keyboard and mouse
      42
    • Audio including Front Panel headphones and microphone
      63
    • Audio except Front Panel headphones
      38
    • Audio except Front Panel microphone
      27
    • Sleep including waking from sleep
      24
    • PCI NIC
      24
    • eSATA
      20
    • Bluetooth
      41
    • WiFi
      38
    • Time Machine
      53
    • Overclocking
      35
    • Auto Software Update e.g. to 10.6.1
      90


2,142 posts in this topic

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For Ethernet, a 64bit kext, eno's nForceLAN.kext is available and for sound and video there are various options available.......64bit injector/EFI graphics string for video......and 64bit VoodooHDA/Legacy kext+DSDT.aml mods for sound.......

 

For nForce chipset MOBOs, the key kext that is still required is a 64bit/32bit universal version of slashack's AppleNForceATA that will enable 64bit or 32bit operation AND DVD+-R/DVD+-RW disc burning on any SATA DVDRW.......

 

For many sleep is still an issue........to be solved by DSDT.aml modding.....specific to each MOBO......

 

thanks agen relly usefull information i gona try running in 64bit naw, and agen tremendus job whit the guide its relly good.

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Hi Everyone,

 

For those using, or thinking of using, Snow Leopard, this link on the things removed from Snow Leopard versus Leopard may be of interest........

 

Cheers

verdant

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For nForce chipset MOBOs, the key kext that is still required is a 64bit/32bit universal version of slashack's AppleNForceATA that will enable 64bit or 32bit operation AND DVD+-R/DVD+-RW disc burning on any SATA DVDRW

 

 

Is there a 64bit nforceata that works fine for hdd and only has problems with sata optical drive burning? My dvd drive being PATA (IDE), that's not much of a lose for me.

 

Also, with a 64bit kernel, I can run both cores. Unfortunately, in 32bit mode, I have to disable one to prevent the system form locking up within the first 5 minutes of booting.

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Is there a 64bit nforceata that works fine for hdd and only has problems with sata optical drive burning? My dvd drive being PATA (IDE), that's not much of a lose for me.

 

Also, with a 64bit kernel, I can run both cores. Unfortunately, in 32bit mode, I have to disable one to prevent the system form locking up within the first 5 minutes of booting.

 

Try this one posted (but untested) by slashack........also see here......

 

Have you patched your DSDT.dsl file by simply running using fassl's DSDT Patcher (without Force Compile and/or New HPET), as well as then doing the RTC fix on it, before compiling it to DSDT.aml etc.....and/or try different bootloaders.......

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First off thanx Verdant for your work.

 

Second, I am getting stuck at a kernel panic when something like this comes across:

 

ACPI_SMC ....(AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement)

 

I currently boot with cpus=1.

 

What can I do to get past this?

 

Also, btw, I used Hazards distro of SL and am using the default kernel (no kernel selected during install as they didn't fit any of my hardware.

 

-----

My nForce Mobo: MSI P7N (MS-7380) MCP51

Processor: Wolfdale Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93Ghz

Grafx: nVidia Geforce GTS 250 512Mb DDR3 PCI-E (SLI ready) though not running SLI.

 

Audio: nForce 430i (MCP51) High Defination Audio

HDD: Seagate 500Gb SATA

DVDRW: LiteOn IDE

Mouse: Logitec

Keyboard: Logitec

 

I have all device id's for my system if I need to put them in a kext or whatever. At this point I cannot generate a DSDT patch to use as I don't have a system up and running yet. (or can I do a DSDT patch on a different computer with OSX and modify it, then copy it over to the SL/Extra folder?)

 

I would appreciate any help if you can!, to point me in the right direction to get things up and running.

 

Thanx! :P

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First off thanx Verdant for your work.

 

Second, I am getting stuck at a kernel panic when something like this comes across:

 

ACPI_SMC ....(AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement)

 

I currently boot with cpus=1.

 

What can I do to get past this?

 

Also, btw, I used Hazards distro of SL and am using the default kernel (no kernel selected during install as they didn't fit any of my hardware.

 

-----

My nForce Mobo: MSI P7N (MS-7380) MCP51

Processor: Wolfdale Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93Ghz

Grafx: nVidia Geforce GTS 250 512Mb DDR3 PCI-E (SLI ready) though not running SLI.

 

Audio: nForce 430i (MCP51) High Defination Audio

HDD: Seagate 500Gb SATA

DVDRW: LiteOn IDE

Mouse: Logitec

Keyboard: Logitec

 

I have all device id's for my system if I need to put them in a kext or whatever. At this point I cannot generate a DSDT patch to use as I don't have a system up and running yet. (or can I do a DSDT patch on a different computer with OSX and modify it, then copy it over to the SL/Extra folder?)

 

I would appreciate any help if you can!, to point me in the right direction to get things up and running.

 

Thanx! :)

 

1. AFAIK Snow Leopard always expects at least 2 cores to be running, so do not boot with cpus=1 (Glad to be proven wrong on this...... :) )

 

2. From my Snow Leopard install guide:

 

If you get a kernel panic during booting as follows:

 

Kernel Extensions in backtrace (with dependencies):

com.apple.driver.AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement) and then some random numbers and letters or with references to HPET not being assigned to the CPU etc.

 

BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task[/code]

 

this indicates that for some reason NullCPUPowerManagement.kext is not taking over from the AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement.kext, as it should be, by being loaded into the kernel before the AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement.kext residing in /System/Library/Extensions, with its pathway inExtensions.mkext located at /System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kext.caches/Startup/Extensions.mkext......

 

This is because the Kext Utility.app did not build the the Extensions.mkext cache file pathway to NullCPUPowerManagement.kext in /Extra/Extensions properly properly (although it is probably setting the kext permissions correctly which is important).....so that NullCPUPowerManagement.kext is not being loaded into the kernel from Extenstions.mkext.....

 

Advice:

 

1. Delete the Extensions.mkext cache file from /Extra on your USB flash drive OS X Installer AND from /Extra on your target OS X volume.....

 

2. Copy "fresh" extensions across from Snow_Support_Files _V2.2 into the /Extra directories

 

AppleNForceATA.AnV or AppleNForceATA.slash

 

fakesmc.V2 or fakesmc.V1

 

NullCPUPowerManagement

 

OpenHaltRestart

 

PlatformUUID (although even different UUIDs in SMBIOS.plist and PlatformUUID Info.plist does not appear to cause any problems because according to Superhai the UUID in SMBIOS is not used for anything.....)

 

If an Extensions.mkext file is not present in /Extra the kexts in /Extra/Extensions will be loaded directly......the Extensions.mkext cache file being more of a convenience than a necessity at bootup in terms of a somewhat reduced bootup time; being a cached version of all the kexts in the Extensions folder, resulting in faster loading of the extensions at boot.

 

OS X continues to use the Extensions.mkext file until its modified date is different from that of the Extensions folder itself; at which point, it reverts to loading them from the Extensions folder and then re-creates the Extensions.mkext file......in Leopard (BUT NOT Snow Leopard at present) booting with -f forces the kexts to be loaded from the Extensions folder at bootup and then recreates the Extensions.mkext file.....

 

3. Install Leopard on your PC......boot into it and create a patched DSDT.aml file and put that in /Extra in Snow Leopard volume (recommended anyhow until SL fully OK)......or, run Koalala's DSDT patcher in Windows on your PC.........

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Verdant,

 

Great Thanx! Will Try it out ASAP!!

 

Sorry if I missed reading some of your original post on those errors.

 

BTW: My system also has 4Gb Dual-Channel DDR2-800Mhz (OCZ nVidia SLI Memory)

 

With 4GB RAM you should use slashack's AppleNForceATA.kext and boot in 32bit mode.......or try the supposed 64bit versions of AppleNForceATA if you need 64bit operation for some specific reason........

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I seem to be having issues connecting external USB/FireWire hard drives. After a certain amount of time (like maybe 10-15 minutes after initially connecting an external hard drive), my computer continues running (animated pictures in Safari still move, the clock updates fine) but shuts off all USB and FireWire connections. Which means no mouse and keyboard for me when that happens.

 

Not really sure about this problem, can't seem to find anything on it. Seems that for most people USB and FireWire connections work just fine. I'm rockin 10.6.2 on a P5N-E SLI. I haven't installed any USB/FireWire kexts.

 

EDIT: Actually, I've since learned that it's only FireWire devices, not USB ones that cause my computer to lock up. Still, the original problem remains: Hooking up a FireWire device will eventually cause my computer to reject all FireWire and USB connections.

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With 4GB RAM you should use slashack's AppleNForceATA.kext and boot in 32bit mode.......or try the supposed 64bit versions of AppleNForceATA if you need 64bit operation for some specific reason........

 

I don't need 64bit as of right now, but it's good to know I can have that option! ;) I might try it out soon to see.

 

 

Here is what I boot with in my com...boot.plist:

DSDT=/DSDT.aml arch=i386

 

Though I had to remove AppleTyMCEDriver.kext.

 

It would always get stuck there with a kp referencing to it as well as it's other files (which I did not remove):

IOACPIFamily.kext

IOPCIFamily.kext

IOPlatformPluginFamily.kext

 

Well, Success!!! I am now running SL 10.6.2 but I had a couple of bumps to figure out.

 

It picked up my monitor right off the bat (Spectre X24).

 

Though my graphics I am not getting it's native resolution which should be 1900x1080x32@60 (or 59). I am only getting 1440x900x32@75.

 

I am not quite sure about QE but CL is working (enabled through OS86Tools).

 

But other than that everything works PERFECTLY, Sleep, Hibernation (my whole computer shut off as it does in Windows Hibernation) and it came back to where it was.

 

My front Audio Jacks (selected AzaliaHD during install) and USB ports work.

 

I need to load a Temperature app to see what temps are if there is a heat problem or not.

 

Oh, and I cannot get (not for sure though) Ethernet to work (probably because of being disabled in BIOS).

 

Also, getting ready to try Debugging (Breakpoints etc..) in XCode 3.2 to see if they work (GDB and what not).

 

So in all of this, THANX!!!!! :D You are a GOD :) among the nForce Mobo's.

 

If there is something I can do to help out with this somewhere, please don't hesitate to ask. :P

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I don't need 64bit as of right now, but it's good to know I can have that option! :D I might try it out soon to see.

 

 

Here is what I boot with in my com...boot.plist:

DSDT=/DSDT.aml arch=i386

 

Though I had to remove AppleTyMCEDriver.kext.

 

It would always get stuck there with a kp referencing to it as well as it's other files (which I did not remove):

IOACPIFamily.kext

IOPCIFamily.kext

IOPlatformPluginFamily.kext

 

Well, Success!!! I am now running SL 10.6.2 but I had a couple of bumps to figure out.

 

It picked up my monitor right off the bat (Spectre X24).

 

Though my graphics I am not getting it's native resolution which should be 1900x1080x32@60 (or 59). I am only getting 1440x900x32@75.

 

I am not quite sure about QE but CL is working (enabled through OS86Tools).

 

But other than that everything works PERFECTLY, Sleep, Hibernation (my whole computer shut off as it does in Windows Hibernation) and it came back to where it was.

 

My front Audio Jacks (selected AzaliaHD during install) and USB ports work.

 

I need to load a Temperature app to see what temps are if there is a heat problem or not.

 

Oh, and I cannot get (not for sure though) Ethernet to work (probably because of being disabled in BIOS).

 

Also, getting ready to try Debugging (Breakpoints etc..) in XCode 3.2 to see if they work (GDB and what not).

 

So in all of this, THANX!!!!! :D You are a GOD :) among the nForce Mobo's.

 

If there is something I can do to help out with this somewhere, please don't hesitate to ask. :P

 

Glad you like the guide.......... :(

I will respond to your post here as soon as I have some free time......OK?

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Glad you like the guide.......... :D

I will respond to your post here as soon as I have some free time......OK?

 

Quite fine! :) I understand fully that you are busy, keep up the great work!

 

BTW: I got full resolution of 1920x1080x32@59.9Hz (I was wrong in my original post on the first size for resolution.

QE/CI is working 100%

 

I had my first "Apple KP" (not standard KP)...this one is where a grey/black box pops up telling you that you need to power off your machine by holding down the power button, and then restart your machine. I got it when I went to install XCode + iPhone SDK 3.2.1 (from apple website). I then tried to re-install again, and it worked.

 

Also I did get a KP when I tried to use a Temperature monitor (temps showd fine, then all of a sudden, KP ;)

 

 

############

Oh, a side note to some, you might have to install Rosetta to get a few applications to work, ie Microsoft Office for Mac and a few others.

############

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Quite fine! :P I understand fully that you are busy, keep up the great work!

 

BTW: I got full resolution of 1920x1080x32@59.9Hz (I was wrong in my original post on the first size for resolution.

QE/CI is working 100%

 

I had my first "Apple KP" (not standard KP)...this one is where a grey/black box pops up telling you that you need to power off your machine by holding down the power button, and then restart your machine. I got it when I went to install XCode + iPhone SDK 3.2.1 (from apple website). I then tried to re-install again, and it worked.

 

Also I did get a KP when I tried to use a Temperature monitor (temps showd fine, then all of a sudden, KP :D

 

 

############

Oh, a side note to some, you might have to install Rosetta to get a few applications to work, ie Microsoft Office for Mac and a few others.

############

 

Glad just about everything is working OK for you....... :wacko:

 

Try Temperature Monitor........

 

Rosetta is only needed for PPC programs.......if not installed and you attempt to install/run a PPC program, you should be prompted to install it.......? You can check which apps are Intel vs.PPC in System Profiler > Software > Applications......

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Glad just about everything is working OK for you....... ;)

 

Try Temperature Monitor........

 

Rosetta is only needed for PPC programs.......if not installed and you attempt to install/run a PPC program, you should be prompted to install it.......? You can check which apps are Intel vs.PPC in System Profiler > Software > Applications......

 

That's the app, "Temperature Monitor" that caused me to get a kp, unless because I had an old version, I am not for sure, but will try it again, just to be sure. Thanx!

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That's the app, "Temperature Monitor" that caused me to get a kp, unless because I had an old version, I am not for sure, but will try it again, just to be sure. Thanx!

 

I am using Hardware Monitor from without any problems on Snow Leopard.......but see here......

 

and how do i instal Snow leo on a P5N32-e-SLI when it keeps ******* REBOOTING!!! its tiking me off so much!!! Help much since u have the board can u help me out?

 

i insert the disk on my pc it loads up when its going to boot in to the apple it reboots!!!

I even tryed instaling on VMware SAME GOD DARN THING!!!HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP PLEASE!!!!

p.s im a noob XD

 

Start by check your BIOS settings against the 650i template in my Pre-Series 7 nForce chipset MOBO thread post #1 and then get a successful Leopard 10.5.6 installation on your PC (if not already available) and follow my SL install guide step by step, using a 8GB USB flash drive or my Boot132DVD to install Snow Leopard, including fixing RTC in your DSDT.aml file........

 

N.B. Inititially remove one of your two GeForce 8800GT cards.........until you have properly installed Leopard and Snow Leopard.......

 

BTW no need to quote my own posts here and please remove "when it keeps ******* REBOOTING!!! its tiking me off so much!!!" from your post as we are now getting quite young readers of my thread......thanks..... :thumbsdown_anim:

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sorry for the swearing, but can you send me screen shots or pic's of your bios please? and i have the Snow_Leopard_10.6.1-10.6.2_SSE2_SSE3_Intel_AMD_by_Hazard

i got it from the piratebay and i also have

SnowOSX_Universal_10.6(432)GM_v3.5

and the retail

MAC.OSX.SNOW.LEOPARD.V10.6-HOTiSO

 

all from thepiratebay

 

if you can send me th ebios picture to the-real-deal613@hotmail.com

that would be amazing

 

Apology accepted but please remove it from your post as well.......also be aware of forum rules, and remove all references to where you downloaded the distros etc.......I do not need such info to help you anyhow.....and your email address as you open yourself to spamming....... ;)

 

Here are my BIOS settings:

 

HDD SMART Monitoing [Enabled]

ACPI Suspend Type [s3 (STR)]

ACPI APIC Support [Enabled]

Serial-ATA Controller [Enabled]

RAID Enabled [Disabled]

OnChip IDE Channel0 [Enabled]

IDE DMA transfer access [Enabled]

IDE Prefetch Mode [Enabled]

HD Audio [Auto]

Onboard 1394 [Enabled]

USB [all options enabled]

Dual Onboard LAN [still enabled by me because of their use by Windows and Ubuntu - causes me no problems as I use a RTL8169 PCI-NIC for OS X]

Memory Timing Setting [All AUTO]

Spread Spectrum Control [All DISABLED] - for maximum performance

CPU Internal Thermal Control [AUTO]

Limit CPUID MaxVal [DISABLED]

Enhanced C1 (C1E) [DISABLED]

Execute Disable Bit [ENABLED]

Virtualization Technology [ENABLED] Does not appear to make a difference whether ENABLED or DISABLED.

Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology [DISABLED]

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Still, does the same thing..... i removed 1 of my 2 8800gts set the bios settings like u told me to, then i was hoping it would boot in one of my ISO's and no luck, any help?

 

If you have a SATA DVDRW rather than a PATA (IDE) DVDRW, the distro ISO's may not have the correct AppleNForceATA.kext in the Extensions.mkext file used to boot from the ISO DVD,.....also, you cannot boot from the Retail OS X DVD directly........

 

Try following my SL Install guide........or my Leopard install guide......or my blog Leoaprd install guides......

 

In appreciation for my help, PLEASE delete swearing from your earlier post.......

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@Verdant: I was sent to this forum by BreakingBad, he tried to help but didn't have the same motherboard as I. I have a XFX 680i nForce and a 9800GTX+ and I'm actually just trying to get 10.5 installed but so far I got it installed and Chameleon is installed, but just can't get past the gray apple logo screen where the spinning circle comes up and is supposed to boot into the OS. I know the partition is fine. Do you think I'm missing a kext that will allow it to boot up?

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@Verdant: I was sent to this forum by BreakingBad, he tried to help but didn't have the same motherboard as I. I have a XFX 680i nForce and a 9800GTX+ and I'm actually just trying to get 10.5 installed but so far I got it installed and Chameleon is installed, but just can't get past the gray apple logo screen where the spinning circle comes up and is supposed to boot into the OS. I know the partition is fine. Do you think I'm missing a kext that will allow it to boot up?

 

If you want to start by getting Leopard installed and booting OK repost in my Pre-Series 7 nForce chipset thread and I will help you there as this thread is for nForce + Snow Leopard only....... :wacko:

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If you have a SATA DVDRW rather than a PATA (IDE) DVDRW, the distro ISO's may not have the correct AppleNForceATA.kext in the Extensions.mkext file used to boot from the ISO DVD,.....also, you cannot boot from the Retail OS X DVD directly........

 

Try following my SL Install guide........or my Leopard install guide......or my blog Leoaprd install guides......

 

In appreciation for my help, PLEASE delete swearing from your earlier post.......

 

 

i did delete the posts didnt i?, and i have an ata drive, and i was trying to boot on to a patched version of osx, its worked for my laptop just not my desktop

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i did delete the posts didnt i?, and i have an ata drive, and i was trying to boot on to a patched version of osx, its worked for my laptop just not my desktop

 

Seems not.....see here....

 

For it to work with your nForce 650i chipset MOBO desktop PC, the patched install DVD would need to boot from an Extensions.mkext file that includes the AppleNForceATA.kext......(or AppleNForceATA_TEST if using a SATA DVDRW).......

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Seems not.....see here....

 

For it to work with your nForce 650i chipset MOBO desktop PC, the patched install DVD would need to boot from an Extensions.mkext file that includes the AppleNForceATA.kext......(or AppleNForceATA_TEST if using a SATA DVDRW).......

 

 

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php...t&p=1389201

 

here's what i choose installing SL using Hazard Distro

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Hello!

First of all I'd like to say a huge thank you to verdant and everybody that works in this project for this beautiful guide and all the incredible work that has been done!

 

I've successfully installed SL retail on my P5N32-E SLI Plus on a USB 3,5" Hard Disk. Everything is working flawlessly, except for 2 things that are driving me crazy...

I can't get the CMOS reset fix via DSDT. I have to clean the CMOS using the jumper to boot up again every time, or I have to enter the bios and re-save the settings before shutting down.

Another issue i'm facing are the dual graphics cards. I've 2 GeForce 8600GT and i've to take out the secondary one to get QE/CI working using efi strings.

I can boot with both of them inserted but without drivers. I've tried NVInject and custom EFI strings for dual cards without any success: the system hangs just before starting the GUI and gives me a KP. :)

 

I've googled for a solution but i couldn't find anything helpful... maybe i'm doing something wrong...i'm a noob XD

 

Niko

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Hello!

First of all I'd like to say a huge thank you to verdant and everybody that works in this project for this beautiful guide and all the incredible work that has been done!

 

I've successfully installed SL retail on my P5N32-E SLI Plus on a USB 3,5" Hard Disk. Everything is working flawlessly, except for 2 things that are driving me crazy...

I can't get the CMOS reset fix via DSDT. I have to clean the CMOS using the jumper to boot up again every time, or I have to enter the bios and re-save the settings before shutting down.

Another issue i'm facing are the dual graphics cards. I've 2 GeForce 8600GT and i've to take out the secondary one to get QE/CI working using efi strings.

I can boot with both of them inserted but without drivers. I've tried NVInject and custom EFI strings for dual cards without any success: the system hangs just before starting the GUI and gives me a KP. :(

 

I've googled for a solution but i couldn't find anything helpful... maybe i'm doing something wrong...i'm a noob XD

 

Niko

 

Glad you too have found my SL install guide helpful....... :yoji:

 

Why were you not able to follow successfully the DSDT.aml RTC fix procedure at the start of my SL install guide, as it is what I use on my P5N32-E SLI Plus.....?

 

Sorry but I cannot offer any advice for setting up dual 8600GT cards as I use only a single 8600GT card.......presume you have seen IM threads for dual cards and posts by aqua-mac etc........?

 

Cheers

verdant

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