MSI 915G Combo FR - Works & Overclocks !!!

[trexplorer]

If you really want a board that works great and overclocks, try the MSI 915G Combo. Sells for about $100 US. I've overclocked via FSB (200 to 267) my p4 from 3Ghz to 4Ghz (33% increase in speed) w stock cooling and only 5% adjustment to RAM and north chip voltage (no increase for cpu - runs at default voltage). Temperature is about 45 to 55 celcius, which is good for the Prescott chip. I get a performance rating of 71 using XBench (and that's using and old clunky hard drive I had lying around - With a newer drive, this number would be higher). Cold boot to Darwin in 4 seconds. Spinning circle to Mac OS blue screen and bar is 8 seconds. 2 Seconds more to desktop ... About 14 seconds from cold boot to OSX desktop (20 seconds from restart to desktop) ... !!!

 

Everything works on this board:

 

Video include Quartz and Open GL

Gigabyte Lan (runs at 100 mbs)

Sound (Azilia or AC97)

etc ...

 

Installed using DVD method (although Deadmoo also works).

 

(p.s., another combination that works great is the MSI K8N NEO4 w AMD 64 3000+. This one overclocks by 50%, i.e., 4,500+. Unfortunately no accelerated graphics although the graphics performance using a 6200 NVidia card comes in around 40% the speed of native graphics ... If native drivers were available this would be faster than the intel based system mentioned above).

 

Cheers ...

[felixding]

does OpenGL work?

[medafor]

^^^^read his post he said opengl worked.

 

i purchased one of these boards. i am very excited after reading your post. the overclocking ability of this thing seems great! i was wondering if you can give me some tips into getting my board and osx setup?

 

what files must i delete to get quartz and acceleration to work?

 

what are some good settings to getting this board to overclock well. i have a 2.8 ghz 775 CPU. if i can get this running at 3.5 even i would be so happy! how is your overclock holding up? stable at that 1gig increase?

 

what other tips can you offer pre/post install and hardware? i plan to install from the patched dvd method.

[trexplorer]

^^^^read his post he said opengl worked.

 

i purchased one of these boards. i am very excited after reading your post. the overclocking ability of this thing seems great! i was wondering if you can give me some tips into getting my board and osx setup?

 

what files must i delete to get quartz and acceleration to work?

 

what are some good settings to getting this board to overclock well. i have a 2.8 ghz 775 CPU. if i can get this running at 3.5 even i would be so happy! how is your overclock holding up? stable at that 1gig increase?

 

what other tips can you offer pre/post install and hardware? i plan to install from the patched dvd method.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1) Quartz & OpenGL work without any mods. I used the generic DVD install as published by Bender. Patched DVD method also works fine without any additional tweaks.

 

2) Best intel cpu to use are the 90nm chips with SSE3 (i.e. 90nm Prescott core like the 530J at 3Ghz) - the other 800FSB chips and the 64 bit chips don't overclock as well and run hot, but they'll probably work ok if all you want is 20% overclock. The MSi 915G combo-FR is an exceptional board for overclocking (read the net for reviews). I increased FSB to 266 (3Ghz P4 530J at 4Ghz) on the MSI 915G combo-FR with about 10% increase to chipset & ram voltage (no increase to cpu voltage). You can do about 245mhz with stock voltages. You also need to set RAM speed to lower multiplier (higher FSB brings it back up to full speed, otherwise it gets unstable). Mine has run at higher speeds (280FSB) but I haven't tried to operate for any length of time as 4Ghz was fast enough. All stock cooling (fan is at low speed all the time and temp is about 50C). Should clean/remove silly adhesive tape when installing cpu cooler and substitute decent cpu grease (very thin layer). XBench is about 72. In comparison to real world use against my iMac Flat panel (overclocked to 1.33 Ghz), this config is easily 2.5-3.5 times faster at most things, most importantly GUI response. Windows open/close and move around very quickly as do directories, etc... iPhoto is much faster, etc ...

 

3) If you really want to overclock a very fast cpu, you might also try the MSI K8N Neo4 (AMD cpu on nForce based chipset) with the Athlon 3000+ (90 nm Venice core) - It overclocks by 50% to 65% very easily with stock cooling (and it's very fast other than native graphics). Unfortunately QE and OpenGL are not supported (but SSE3 is supported) and it works great other than accelerated graphics (still runs about 40% of openGL speeds). Of course you need to add a PCIE video card to this config. Xbench (even without video acceleration) is about 70 ... It would probably be around 90 with video acceleration.

 

4) Again, I made no adjustments to the MSI 915G combo-FR (intel based board)and I have full support for openGL, QE, LAN (100mb only), sound (output only), USB & PS/2 mouse/keybd, SSE3, fast drive access, etc ... A couple of minor problems (i) sleep mode which seems to occasionally lock up the PC or it won't "fully wake up" - This may be a BIOS problem but haven't had a chance to sort it out (I've just turned it off in the control panel). (ii) Volume input is not available (output only) and the volume slider is disabled, although volume adjustment is available thru individual apps - probably a fix for this on the forums but I haven't had a chance to try ...

 

5) There is the occasional glitch (P4 + MSI 915G combo-FR) with the odd app (likley related to software on OSx86 and not hardware), but generally everything works.

 

Cheers ...

[jonajona]

Have you tried any other applications with this setup? Like Photoshop, FCP, or any other task intensive apps? I'd like to know. If it's almost flawless like you said, well, I just might have to agree with you and buy one for myself.

[trexplorer]

Have you tried any other applications with this setup?  Like Photoshop, FCP, or any other task intensive apps?  I'd like to know.  If it's almost flawless like you said, well, I just might have to agree with you and buy one for myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've only tried Microsoft Office X and Photoshop CS. Office (Excel & Word) seem fine, but Photoshop reports a memory problem (probably needs to be updated to latest version, CS2).

 

cheers ...

[trexplorer]

I've only tried Microsoft Office X and Photoshop CS.  Office (Excel & Word) seem fine, but Photoshop reports a memory problem (probably needs to be updated to latest version, CS2).

 

cheers ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've since been able to try Photoshop CS2 and it works fine, although it runs a little slow (especially when opening) due to Rosetta emulation.

[would_pay_for_mac_on_x86]

wow...thanks for the great detailed info. i cannot believe you got there on stock cooling... thats amazing!

 

are you on SATA or IDE? i hear SATA can't go past 245Mhz FSB on this board:

http://www.overclockersonline.com/index.ph...&num=256&pnum=2

 

whats your config (RAM, case, fans, etc and did you find any great MSI combo-FR reviews?

 

i'm tossed up on the 630 or the 530J and the comment you made about the 64 bit chips (630).

 

intel actually shows that the 630 runs 1 degree cooler than the 530J

 

http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/a...ence/182403.htm

 

and numerous reports on the internet say the 630 is a fine overclocker and could reach even 4.5ghz on the right cooling...so i'm wondering if you said this based on first hand knowledge or a certain review?

 

that said your results speak for themselves...they just don't make the 630 any worse per se.

 

thanks!

[trexplorer]

wow...thanks for the great detailed info. i cannot believe you got there on stock cooling... thats amazing!

 

are you on SATA or IDE? i hear SATA can't go past 245Mhz FSB on this board:

http://www.overclockersonline.com/index.ph...&num=256&pnum=2

 

whats your config (RAM, case, fans, etc and did you find any great MSI combo-FR reviews?

 

i'm tossed up on the 630 or the 530J and the comment you made about the 64 bit chips (630).

 

intel actually shows that the 630 runs 1 degree cooler than the 530J

 

http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/a...ence/182403.htm

 

and numerous reports on the internet say the 630 is a fine overclocker and could reach even 4.5ghz on the right cooling...so i'm wondering if you said this based on first hand knowledge or a certain review?

 

that said your results speak for themselves...they just don't make the 630 any worse per se.

 

thanks!

 

1) I'm running on IDE just because I've got IDE drives in several PC's and can more easily swap drives.

2) Running over 245 mhz isn't a problem with the right north bridge voltage. Intel intentionally "under powerred" the chipset in an attempt tp provide future performance improvements and limit overclocking. Northbridge on my board is set to 1.9 volts and works fine. I run at 250 to 260 mhz without problems and I could run higher but am not interested in stressing the system for minor speed improvement (I will probably increase once I install zalman copper cooler and enermax psu)

3) I read a number of reviews before settling on this board (search google). I also built the first system with my traditional favorite ASUS. The ASUS board worked very poorly, so I changed to MSI since local supplier could easily access. Really, any of the better intel based boards should also work fine (including similar chipsets like intel 925). Abit, ASrock and others should be fine.

4) RAM is branded 533mhz (most compatible brands should be fine) and runs at I believe 666 mhz no problems (i.e., 250 FSB). Power supply is stock as is the cpu fan. I do recommend adding a chipset fan for the norhtbridge as it gets hot (I believe that the newer higher FSN boards using this chipset are using a fan now to deal with higher voltages and heat). I plan to upgrade to Zalman cpu cooler and enermax powersupply when I get a chance, although not bad for noise/heat for now. PSU does build up more heat than an enemrax and noisier but acceptable for now.

5) At the time I chose this hardware, dual core pentiums were running a fair bit hotter under load (idle may be fine per your comments on intel specs). You may want to check this before proceeding as these chips were quite hot when I last checked. I would also be cautious about how intel presents thir data and look to other sources to confirm. Don't know if dual core gives you much if anything in the way of peformance with current software.

6) Most annoying limitation of all of these Intel based chipset boards is the limited number of IDE channels. The Raid channels will not work on booting OSX (at least on the MSI and ASUS boards that I tried). Provided the board you have supports SATA on OSX (and I believe the MSI combo FR does), this may be a solution, although I have not tried.

7) Main Sound volume control does not work although driver is recognized. I can adjsut sound from individual apps.

8) The only other negative is that my MSI combo FR board refused to overclock after about one month of use (it became progressively worse). Upgrading to new BIOS didn't help nor did reverting to earlier versions of the BIOS. The problem continued to escalate until even a 1% overclock prevented the system from booting. A new board from my supplier solved the problem, suggesting the board was deffective.

 

I was excited at the prospect of building this system initially, but limitations in software upgrades and possible future protection schemes would lead me to build a more economical system were I starting again today (at least until things stabilize a bit). If cost is of interest you might try a celeron cpu and an Asrock board which would be less money and not significantly less performance. If however you plan to use a dual OS config with both Windows and OS X, the pricier system may be more apt. I also built a a system around an AMD NForce 4 board which was great for overclocking (60% is no problem). It has SSE3 and everything works except for graphics acceleration. In fact, it is overall faster than pentium other than optimized P4 software environments. Even sound in/out works. Only problem is graphics acceleration. If an NVidia driver becomes available, this would be my choice platform (runs about 35 C which is 10 C cooler than P4).

 

Anyway ... Good luck and have fun.

[would_pay_for_mac_on_x86]

wow..thanks...you raise a lot of good points and issues...

 

i'm very torn on my mobo decision now. see proposed parts list below.

 

i need to make sure i have at LEAST 4 drives in there (1 DVD + 3 HDs, regardless of IDE or SATA), and that the mobo has GMA900/950 CI/QE, and is known to be highly overclockable.

 

has your mobo problem come back? i would almost wonder if you were the victim of the infamous intel overclock lock...where the machine shuts down, or refusing to boot, over time... sounds very similar to some of the threads i think i've read... any chance that's what happened to you? i am not sure of exactly how this overclock manifests itself...

 

on the Hard drive issue, if both primary and secondary RAID channels don't work under OSX86, once you add a DVD drive, you are only left with only 1 hard drive? that is a pretty big limitation i agree... you don't happen to have any SATA drives around that you could test if they work or not, either just as data or ideally, booting?

 

What are "FSN boards"? You are saying there's a fan now? That's bad news for noise. I'd rather a bigger HS...

 

asus are my favorite too. what asus didn't you like? it is interesting to note that asus was one of the first to figure out the OC issue, and a good read is here: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2124&p=2 what i never did understand, is why the other mobo mfrs never made any similar pronouncements once they defeated the OC locks...

 

also, 2 suggestions for you....

- you might want to consider the Seasonic S12 series PSU.... at 80% efficiency even an attached UPS runs longer. its one of the best and quietest on the market, ideal for overclocking or wherever assured power is needed. i enermax too till I heard about Seasonic.

 

- also for a Heat Sink, check out either the Thermalright SI-120 (newer version of the XP-120) or the Scythe Ninja SCNJ-1000. Both are known to offer more CFM cooling at less noise (with a Nexus fan) than the air cooled units. read the SPCr's Recommend reviews section. they have extraordinarily detailed reviews focusing on cooling, and power, not too mention cases, which are an often overlooked source of 15 degree cooler rig. http://www.silentpcreview.com/section10.html

 

 

My $674 (*or $618) 4Ghz (hopefully!) Ultra low noise Hackinmac:

 

- $110 mobo undecided (Asus P5LD2-V, Asus P5LD2-VM, MSI 945G Neo, Asus P5GDC-V Deluxe) http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?S...D=done&nextloc=

- $63 SeaSonic S12-330 PSU http://www.case-mod.com/store/seasonic-s12...576.html?src=fr

- $43 Antec SLK3000B or Evercase E4252BB-53 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006OCZM...ronics&v=glance

- $175 Pentium 4 630 (3.0Ghz) Prescott 800MHz FSB 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 EM64T Pentium 4 630 (3.0Ghz) Prescott 800MHz FSB 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 EM64T

- $95 OCZ Copper Value Pro 1 GB DDR2 533 PC2-4200 OCZ25331024VP 240pin http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/m...8&AFFIL=dt&NR=1

- $51 Thermaltake SI-120

- $32 2x Nexus 120mm D12SL-12, CPU + rear replacement, possibly front addition too if I add more HDs

- $5 Arctic Silver 5

- $95 250GB WD HD (now, probably IDEm this SATA thing has me spooked)

*optional - $119 Replace Intel 660 with Intel Pentium 4 505 (2.66Ghz) Prescott 533MHz FSB 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 BX80547PE2667E

Supposedly this chip can get 3.5-4.2Ghz on air 4.4Ghz on water.

 

If anyone can confirm a CI, QE mobo with 4 drive support that's known to be overclockable ( I'm looking for 3.8Ghz to 4.3Ghz) please let me know

[trexplorer]

1) My MB problem has not resurfaced (running for about 2 weeks now), but I refuse to update BIOS just in case.

2) The "infamous Intel overclock lock" from my reading was mostly attributable to underpowerred North Bridge chip sets on early boards. Later BIOS updates (and newer boards) solved this problem once the limitation was identified (i.e., Intel's strategy to "underpower the chipset"). All intel did was determine the lowest possible voltage that the board could run stable at 200 FSb and set this as default. I discoverred this strategy almost immediately when overclocking and well before reading up on it (pretty sneaky on Intel's part).

3) Sorry for the typo; I meant ' ... newer higher FSB boards ..'.

4) I don't have an SATA drive but if I get my hands on one, I will report.

5) I had initially tried the ASUS P5GD1-VM which is an mATX board without any FSB adjustments. It also booted BIOS extremely slowly when more than one IDE device was attached. I later discoverred (after returning the board) that I had the wrong end of the cable attached to the system bus (which has similar affects on the MSI board). This seems to be a problem with some boards ...

6) Suggest you find a friendly local supplier like mine that lets me try stuff and return it if I don't like it ... However, there is quite a lot of info now on what works so you shouldn't have problems anyway (mostly sound and LAN which are both manageable).

7) Thanks for the links. I have never tried the Seasonic PSU or Thermalright heat sink. I may do so if I can convince local supplier to carry (I try out a lot of stuff and then make reccomendations to him ... good for both of us). I also have a remote PC setup (KVM and remote CAT5 reach) so that I don't see or hear/see the equipment anyway.

8) I don't believe you'll find an Intel 915 (or later) based chipset board that supports more than the 1 "real" IDE port ... focus was on SATA. The other two IDE ports will usually be software based RAID channels that are identified after initial BIOS startup (and are not compatible w OS x86 boots).

9) I believe that you'll find most intel based hardware you choose will do 95% of what you want ... the real limitations are now OS X86, software and drivers.

10) The MSI neo MB, if I remember correctly, may have incompatible sound or LAN chipsets ... Check against forum hardware compatibility list.

11) Finally, you will most certainly want a northbridge chipset fan or purchase one of the newer boards with fan or thermal heat sink installed - this chip set gets hot.

 

Cheers ...

[would_pay_for_mac_on_x86]

how exactly did your MSI fail the first and subsequent times? did it fail to turn on after you had shut it down? was this right after a BIOS upgrade?

 

on the OC lock....so you are saying is it really is as simple as any mobo that lets you give a little more juice to the NB? sounds too easy almost...

 

its a shame you don't have any SATA drives to do a quick test.

 

do we have any reason to think that theSATA drives *could not* be used?

SATA is closet to the dev machines after all, right?

 

the blue vs black IDE connector issue....you know, i once heard that the blue connector is the one that is supposed to go to the mobo, but in my life i've never had it actually make a difference. at this point you think that fixes your slow bios boot problem?

 

you also said that the P5GD1-VM has no FSB adjustments? i am surprised.

i had thought that all ASUS mobos were at least somewhat overclockable.

 

you know, theres a P5GD1-V (no M) that is supposedly tailored for OCing i believe. its a std ATX form factor. i think it has special heat sinks on the reverse side of the mobo ( "Stack Cool2" ?) as well as a feature that changes the multiplier to 14x instead of 15x, i guess in a hope you'll be able to have a faster bus at the expense of a slower CPU clock...

 

http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2...575&modelmenu=1

 

do you have any experience with this one?

[trexplorer]

1) My MB failed slowly. I found that turning down the FSB a little more each time solved the problem, until it wouldn't boot at all except at 200 FSB. The problem was non-linear, leading me to believe a deffective capcitor, etc..

2) The overclock lock is northbridge related and also related to the fact that the first Intel chip based MB's had limited or no northbridge voltage adjustments.

3) SATA is shown to work on the hardware compatibility list.

4) The slow BIOS boot and IDE recognition was definitely related to orientation of cabling - this is a common problem with many boards.

5) Many mATX boards have feature limitations such as overclocking. Check out the manuals before buying, although some of the manuals may also have flaws (especially MSI - often the boards have superceeded the documentation)

6) The ASUS ATX board you mention looks like a pretty cool and new design board (may also be pricy). Just double check the specs on the chip set to make sure sound and LAN will work ... seems to me that the Marvel DUAL LAN chipset have some limitations (i.e., server mode doesn't work). You may also have to do some tweaking with the kexts (945 chipsets) to get it to boot from what I quickly read. My choice for MSI was that I simply wanted access to a local supplier if things didn't work out (other than documentation, MSI work very well).

7) The ASUS board you mention provides a little flexibility w multiplier locks - I had read about some new boards (mostly AMD) that unlocked multipliers. Usually you can't do this without getting a special cpu (i.e., sites that review hardware sometimes get previews of these special cpu's from the manufacturers).

 

cheers ...

[would_pay_for_mac_on_x86]

ok...thanks....i've got that asus in my radar...

 

btw, many vendor sites say the MSI Combo-FR has the marvell LAN

the MSI site itself says Realtek.

the MSI manuals say marvell.

other vendor sites say Realtek too.

 

quite a mess.

 

i am wondering if they changed stock midway through a production run of the combo-FR....

 

seem like you must have got the Realtek...

[would_pay_for_mac_on_x86]

hey trexplorer

 

can you post your full xbench scores here?

 

wilboz has the newer MSI 945g board also with a 4.0ghz overclock and is only getting 50 xbench vs your 70.

 

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?sh...719entry24719

 

i want to understand where the difference is. and why the real dev machines at only 3.6ghz are getting 80-90 xbench..... thanks man

[trexplorer]

xBench can give a range of results. Diffirent versions of the program also result in diffirent ratings (1.1.3 vs 1.2). Don't think the program realistically measures performance of x86 machines ... I only use it to measure relative performance for diffirent configurations on the same pc (i.e., some iMac G4's running at 1.25Ghz have higher ratings than some of my PC's and yet my PC's are significantly faster in real world use). My AMD PC is faster than the Intel PC other than graphics acceleration, yet this is not realistically reflected in the results either ... Also higher overclocks (near the limits) may result in lower performance as the cpu throttles back cycles to adjust for heat and overloads. I've attached a couple of benchmarks, one for an intel pc and another for an AMD pc (this was run on a 3000+ processor overclocked by 42.5% to 285FSB). These were run on version 1.1.3 of xBench.

 

cheers

OSX86__Intel_MSI_3.9_GHz.pdf

OSX86_AMD3000___285_FSB__fujitsu_HD_.pdf

[would_pay_for_mac_on_x86]

thanks...good points all...

about the throttling, any way to detect this under osx86?

 

your 915g tests are under xbench 1.1.3.

 

would you mind rerunning them when you get a chance under 1.2 on your 915g?

thanks...