Psystar counter-sues Apple for anti-competitive business practices

[Maxintosh]

i am aware that of how that all works but you know very well in the USA most your rights are only your rights when they dont make lars ulrich scream

False Dilemma. It's part of the copyright law and you are protected by it. They don't advertise this fact because they know full well that most people are under the false assumption that making a copy is illegal, so essentially, they are charging people for something that 99.9% will never use. Downloading from the internet is a different matter though, so copying is not blanket protected. It depends on the source.

[slacker25]

True the copywrite laws do simply protect themselves from people making money off said product and that is it

 

but our systems weather its writen that way or not do work much like the pow camps in vietnam war they kept the prisoners captive through fear and nothing more

 

and somewhat like a 6 year old playing games changing the rules when they see fit thats why they uise terms like innocent till provven guilty

[jaez]

all lawful acts. The copyright law says so: section 1008 of the copyright statute provides that consumers may make non-commercial copies of recorded music without liability."

 

Exactly. Copywrite is about commercial use. You can't sell Leopard. But, if you buy it, you can use it anyhow, provided you're not selling the copyrighted stuff to someone else.

 

You can copy OSX onto a PC hard disk from the Lepoard DVD, that's ok with the copyright law. It's all legal.

 

[Maxintosh]

You can't sell Leopard.

(cough) ...Leopard is not music... (cough)

[ColorMeMac]

Righto - I'm new here, in fact it would be more correct to say 'I'm completely n00b here'. All the arguments here are interesting and I would hesitate to proclaim rightness or wrongness of the arguments as the issues and examples supporting either are many. However, someone here hit the nail on the head and I quote:

 

"Moreover, they want to run OS X on the PC's they already own instead of having to buy a real Mac. "

 

I started looking for osx86 2 weeks ago after seeing an installation video on you tube which fascinated me. I am fairly new to Macs having bought an iMac for my wife, which she just loves. The only thing that crashes on it (funnily enough) is the M$ Office that she needs for work compatibility.

 

So I looked at getting a Mac for running (learning) FCP. ~ WHAT a hassle! I bought a PPC G5 only to discover that AGP in the MAc world isn't the same as AGP as in an industry standard - to buy the right video card was gonna cost as much as I paid for the secondhand PPC G5! So I looked at new MacPro's - and I can't afford $5000+ for a machine to learn a pice of software.

 

Meanwhile the dual xeon 3.2 I built 3 years ago for Avid editing sits doing bugger all. I want OSX for my existing machine! It is an intel chip - it's even a bloody xeon for @#$%'s sake and I'm more than willing to pay for the OS- but why should I be shackled to hardware to shouldn't have to need??

 

SO, I raise my hand in salute to the community here and look forward to learning (gleaning) enough from the forums here to understand 90% of what some of you are saying. And getting my own .iso which I have finally tracked down... be trying it out in a day or two - slooow connection with a daily datacap.... 3rd world service where I am LOL

 

CMM

[slacker25]

@ColorMeMac ...you should because thats just the way it works this is apple not the gov or something y9ou have a right to vote on and chose you simple do it their way cause its not your right as much as everyone wants to believe and if their way doesnt suite you its time to find someone elses way to do things many people like linux good its less restricting on the wallet but apple is well within their rights

[nigelbb]

NOT true! You see when you buy a blank music CD, you are already paying a special compulsory tax that gets paid to the labels that allows you to make those copies, but most people don't know about this even though it is built-in to this part of the copyright statute.

It depends on the laws of your particular country. To my knowledge this is true of France but not of the UK.

[Shaithis]

Hold on there just a minute bud, your assumptions are not founded. Mac computers are not in any way, shape or form 'sub standard'. By calling them that you show your ignorance on this topic. They are designed and engineered a lot better than that 'kit' PC that you probably put together. I know this for a fact because I've actually owned both varieties. I will never waste my time building another PC, knowing what I know today about what goes into a Mac and how they never seem to have ANY issues, unlike your 'kit' PC. That said, they are NOT inflated price wise. You get what you pay for, and MANY people like myself are more than happy to pay a slight premium for a Mac computer knowing that it won't have any issues for as long as they own it. If you knew anything about this topic then you'd know that the whole reason why Apple decided (probably before you were born) not to allow people to build Macs like PC's is so that they could control the quality better. History has show that to be a wise (but unpopular) move on their part. Enjoy your piece-mealed caboodled PC if you want, but don't try to suggest that you could engineer and build one just like it yourself because it's not going to happen

 

I waiting for one of you Einstein's to accuse Apple of slavery

 

ROFL. Nice rant, shame your so far off base its silly. It is you who are ignorant, or merely blinded, probably because you can't tell the difference between a hardware and a software issue.

 

Get a decent set of drivers for your "GENERIC PC" and you will find it is also 100% stable, just like the Mac, yet performs on a different level thanks to your money going a LOT further because of apples mark-up.

 

 

Yes, and since it's their own product, they have that right. You either buy it or you don't. That's a free market. Beenie Babies taught us that. The market leader gets to set their own price, so long as they can sell enough of them to stay in business.

 

Windows is microsofts own product, so why can't they limit the software that runs on it? Its the SAME principle. Just because its software instead of hardware, makes no difference. They are ARTIFICIALLY blocking a choice. They sell the software separate from the hardware, we know that software can run on many generic PCs, yet they stop it.

 

Microsoft was trying to limit the software you could run on their product, specifically software that competed with their own software. That's anti-competitive. Apple, in contrast, encourages you to install competing software on their product, they even provide the drivers for the competing software. You can't even pretend that Apple is being anti-competitive. You'd get laughed out of court.

 

So, explain to me what the difference is between hardware and software that makes it ok for apple to do this? Explain to me why defending your software market is wrong, yet defending your hardware market is perfectly acceptable? And they are anti-competitive. They are artificially stopping every PC manufacturer in the world from selling PCs that can run OSX. And its the "artificial" part that's the key here. They know that should OSX be able to be loaded on generic PCs, they will lose a ton of hardware sales.....and they do not want to compete on price because their hardware is a huge cashcow to them thanks to people who buy them primarily for the OS.

 

Arguing that it is different is, IMO, laughable. What if Microsoft started releasing PCs and ensured that every copy of Windows from that point on would only run on their PCs? They would be in court facing anti-competitive changes instantly.

 

Apple should have realise they would end up in this situation the day they made a 99% generic PC and slapped a Mac sticker on it. They are now in the x86 market and cannot just choose accept the plus points of what that brings.

[jaez]

Most famous commercial myth: "You get what you pay for."

 

The truth is: "The more you know the less you pay."

 

[slacker25]

@Shaithis

 

Maxintosh is not off base he is actually right on how copywrite laws are suppose to work if they worked the way they was intended to ...

 

but THe real way things work is you cant fight the syustem

and all this does depend on your country

 

and jaes is still the one ranting about pointless {censored}

[jaez]

and jaes is still the one ranting about pointless {censored}

 

It's not pointless. It's all about what you "Believe".

 

That's the most important thing.

 

Knowledge is power, but only if you believe the right things.

 

Otherwise, knowledge can be a handicap.

 

What you believe you know is your restraining force, but what you know you believe is your liberating force.

 

[Kane Adams]

Here's to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes... the ones who see things differently -- they're not fond of rules... You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can't do is ignore them because they change things... they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.

Steve Jobs

US computer engineer & industrialist (1955 - )

[slacker25]

@jaes .. if knowladge is power and yuo seem to think you are on that wave link in life then go create something better on your own then OSX and then make a company that is better then APPLe and then you can do things your way... until you can prove more then just running OSX on your pc as being knowladge which its not most everyone here is running off someone elses work that will tell yuo yes it was a lot of work to make the hackintosh happen but they will most likly be running their mac pros by now and will pry praise apple for making fine OS .. but your knowladge doesnt = power if your not going to step up to the plat and stop acting like your king cause you run OSx86

[jaez]

@jaes .....most everyone here is running off someone elses work ....

 

Gee. Praise Apple. Jobs is Great. I agree. But, go into any public library or university library and look around.

 

There..those books are the works of our ancestors...they are our inputs...we all build on other people's works.

 

This has been going on for thousands of years.

 

Can't avoid it. No man is an island.

 

The only sin is "not being aware of other people's works", that's all.

 

 

But to make use of the works of another, that's is the highest form of praise.

[slacker25]

Yes and times change and the only restrictions apple puts on you is their hardware lock in and most work built on ansestors stuff is well they are ansestors if they was stuill here they pry would hate yuou for doing what yuo like with their work... applle is not an ansestor.

[jaez]

applle is not an ansestor.

 

Wonziak is ancestor...and he is pretty happy apple still uses "his work."

 

I'm sure Steve.W doesn't hate Steve.J.

[slacker25]

and im sure the Woz would just love you

[ColorMeMac]

@ColorMeMac ...you should because thats just the way it works this is apple not the gov or something y9ou have a right to vote on and chose you simple do it their way cause its not your right as much as everyone wants to believe and if their way doesnt suite you its time to find someone elses way to do things many people like linux good its less restricting on the wallet but apple is well within their rights

 

uh okay then. What is it I "should" ? When I come across posts that use grammar in the way you do, I tend to pass them by. Usually because the arguments contained within are camouflaged by pseudo intellectual rantings. But I made the effort to put in the missing punctuation just in case you had something new to say. Sadly, I was disappointed.

 

The word that comes to mind when I examine your many posts is simply 'Luddite' - not that you are not technically unaware but because your attitude parrots all that is wrong with the current socio-economic theory. I.E. ownership is everything and it can be bought with might who then become the right. Experimentation is the foundation of evolution and those who experiment are the cutting edge of our society and push the boundaries that create all the new things that we enjoy. Materially, ethically etc etc.

 

What is happening here, as far as I can see, is a group of like minded individuals that are not happy to just blindly accept the status quo. And that, my friend, is a good thing. No-one is trying to rip off Apple any more than you are trying to rip off Toyota by pimping your car. I'm sure that Toyota would prefer that you don't muck around with their car and instead buy an NSX if you want to go fast.

 

Anyway I have no intention of continuing any lecture - Slacker, you need to take a chill pill.

 

On a side note I recently went to a presentaion by Apple of FCP studio. They stated that there were over 1 million 'paid for' FCP edit seats. 2 things are interesting about this. 1, they have been paid 2000 million dollars for FCP alone and I'm sure there was a healthy profit margin in that. 2nd the way the 'paid' was presented had a clear inference that Apple are aware that users are experimenting with the products and there seemed to be a tacit understanding that this was not a bad thing. At one point a statement was made that many of the improvements in Apple products came from the Mac users community. My understanding of this is that as long as an individual is not experimenting for commercial gain then they are fine with it. This is where the Psysus operation could come a cropper. A previous point was made about the desirability of staying 'under the radar' and I agree with that.

[Maxintosh]

Get a decent set of drivers for your "GENERIC PC" and you will find it is also 100% stable, just like the Mac

ROFL You are entitled to your opinion, but not your own set of facts. Try again.

 

Experimentation is the foundation of evolution and those who experiment are the cutting edge of our society and push the boundaries that create all the new things that we enjoy.

Regarding this threads subject matter your comment is just a red herring.

[slacker25]

@Maxintosh ... thanks for coming back with more common sence to spread i'm running outta things to say to these guys

[ColorMeMac]

Regarding this threads subject matter your comment is just a red herring.

 

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Personally I am going to wait for the courts opinion on this 'threads subject' 'cos at the end of the day it is the only opinion that actually matters. In terms of this forum in the wider context (and you cannot argue irrelevancy for that) my comment is not a red herring at all. Simply an attempt to illustrate that wider context to those that believe that only they have the franchise on 'sence' which as the proverb goes is not all that common. Subject is closed as far as I am concerned as I have my .iso now and if I get it to work I'll do the right thing and purchase a licence. Can't say fairer than that.

[slacker25]

Only Opinon that really matter yet yuo will be screaming like a little girl when you are shown wrong

[Maxintosh]

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Yeah well it's not considered as an 'opinion' when what you said meets the definition of a red herring. This thread is about the law, and 'experimentation' has nothing to do with that. If you were a fly on the wall of this cases courtroom, I guarantee you that you'd never hear the subject of experimentation mentioned. Psystar has the right to counter sue, but time will only tell if the court laughs at them or not.

[ColorMeMac]

Yeah well it's not considered as an 'opinion' when what you said meets the definition of a red herring. This thread is about the law, and 'experimentation' has nothing to do with that. If you were a fly on the wall of this cases courtroom, I guarantee you that you'd never hear the subject of experimentation mentioned. Psystar has the right to counter sue, but time will only tell if the court laughs at them or not.

 

I'll let you have the last word on this but really the both of you make me larf out loud - are you the Nose-Out-Of-Joint Tag Team? How DARE someone have an alternative opinion... your understanding of the word definition needs a bit of a polish. I wasn't trying to send anybody down a wrong path or divert attention away from the issues at hand. sheesh. That's it the last you'll hear from me on this particular issue - Promise! A question to the 2 of you: What exactly are you doing here if you hold the views you hold? Oooo I hear the crowd roar "hypocrisy!"...

 

PS the Law is nothing more than a collection of opinions that we agree to be bound to until such time as we disagree - then we go to court. good luck and goodnight!

[Maxintosh]

How DARE someone have an alternative opinion

You are, of course, free to hold your own opinion whatever that might be, however, when you try to state opinion as fact, or try to twist the truth around, that is when you will be challenged. Hope this clarifies the matter for you.

 

A question to the 2 of you: What exactly are you doing here if you hold the views you hold?

I don't know about you but from time to time I've learned a lot of various things from this site. With what you've said a question could also be asked of you: if you think this site is just about one thing, then why isn't your username ColorMeOSx86?

 

Oooo I hear the crowd roar "hypocrisy!"...

 

the Law is nothing more than a collection of opinions that we agree to be bound to until such time as we disagree

I asked all of my attorneys, and searched many legal sites on the net, but no one used the word 'opinion' when it came to the definition of the word law. Seems you're the one whos understanding of the word definition needs a bit of a polish Hopefully now we can return to Psystars countersuit