Psystar counter-sues Apple for anti-competitive business practices

[jaez]

Not according to sales figures for the past 3-4 years. Not according to what I see my clients doing either. All things being equal, most intelligent people looking for a new computer that compare both systems go for the Mac. There are many good reasons for this. The kind of person that walks away from the Apple store empty handed and into the PC shop are the kind that shop at K-Mart for the cheapest priced product. These are are the same kinds of people that buy fram oil filters for their car

 

The sales of all computers are rising. Apple rises with the tide. Your Windows box can be as cheap as a K-Mart or as sophisticated and expensive as you want. The choices for PCs are endless.

That's because anyone can build a PC, and only in the PC world can you explore the wonders of Overclocking Excellence. The fastest desktops will always remain Windows PCs until Apple releases its hold on the OSX EULA. There's no technical reason why a MAC can't run as fast as the speediest overclocked PC. It's only Apple's fault that Leopard isn't the fastest desktop OS on the planet.

 

 

[dani77zg]

@dani77zg ... try readinga few of them they are all basiclly the same and with sodtware and EULA apply to other things liek ISP theyare all considered a service and are under no obligation to you or anyone in certain extent they have no obligation to copywrite laws...seeing as how copywrite laws are there to make it so you do not have write to copy their work and EULA ... i think it will hold up and even if it wouldnt tonot allow one to holds up you might as well not allow all of them and then that would hurt the ecconnomy and soo many people making money off the companies out there

 

They are basically the same but with one distinct difference in this case. That difference is the one that matters to me and in the same time the one that I think violates my right as an end user. Also it is the one I think is not in accordance with the law. There are parts of EULA that are obvious to be in accordance with the law, but there are some, such as this, which are not so clear. If they were, there wouldn't be this thread with so many different opinions. If anything good will arise from this, it is the court ruling whether this part of EULA is legal or not.

The other stuff you wrote I couldn't quite understand but I did understand that you think it would hurt the economy.

I'm not good enough with english as it is not my native language to go deeper into subject of economy but it is quite the other way around.

If every company would have such business models, today we would have far less competition or no competition at all. Products would be far more expensive (like apple is comparing to a pc), there would be less employment and so on.

This model is working great for apple and it is very simple. They have found a niche market and in that market they have a monopoly.

No monopoly in any form is overall good for the economy.

That way they have great profit margins on their products. They have to work less end are payed more for their products comparing to the rest of the industry. They have less competitive environment to compete in since the found a niche. It is only natural they want to keep the thing as they are (I would do the same in their place also) and hence the EULA with its ban of installing the software (which is a driving force of their entire business model) on a pc. It is all OK if they are trying to keep things the same in a way that is legal, but is not ok if they brake the law trying to do it and i think that this statement in EULA is doing just that.

[slacker25]

@dani77zg

 

what the ruling will most likly set is just as maclancer pointed out is is a {censored} agreement just like any other one if you are not some retard and can read the judge will tell you either agree to it or hey DONT USE IT

 

the law does not dictact biz practice THE US gov does nto work this way or there would be no companies

 

everyone needs to get over their freakin false sence of entitlement to something you really dont own the right to

 

you install it on your PC ok .... but dont call it legal and dont whine cause someone tells you. you did something illegal

[KellyKelly]

I'd like to stick with psystar this time. And YES I agree that apple it is practicing anti-competitive business since they only allow installing Mac OS to a generic apple hardware. If Psystar won the lawsuit we'll be able to install MAC Os legally on any non apple hardware.

 

 

I'll go with Psystar.

[Maxintosh]

The sales of all computers are rising.

Not true.

 

Your Windows box can be as cheap as a K-Mart or as sophisticated and expensive as you want.

Just because it's expensive does NOT mean it's sophisticated. I don't care what hardware you piece-meal together, a computer can only be as good as it's operating system, and there OS X is the king (like it or not).

 

The choices for PCs are endless.

So are the viruses

[KellyKelly]

I find it ridiculous that if I buy Windows Vista, I can't use it on my PowerPC computers!

I find it ridiculous that if I buy electronics in the US, I can't use the same power adapter in the UK!

I find it ridiculous that if I buy a PS3 game, I can't use it on my Wii!

 

YES You can get Windows vista to work by using an emulator on PowerPC computers!

YES You can use the same power adapter by plugging it in a wall converter!

There's only few games that are PS3 exclusive, most PS3 games are also available on the Wii!

 

 

unlike apple computer, only allows you to install MAC OS on a genric apple hardware.

 

In Denial. hehe

[slacker25]

i don't see how you can see this as anti competitive it could be very well looked at as being PC companies make shyte to lock osx out

 

 

i know you can run it on your pc but if you think its as good as real mac your in denial

[Maxintosh]

YES You can get Windows vista to work by using an emulator on PowerPC computers!

YES You can use the same power adapter by plugging it in a wall converter!

They weren't talking about using emulators or converters to get something to work. If you truly knew what being in denial meant, then you'd realize that your statement fits it best of all, as you can't accept the truth and have to try to justify your reasoning

[slacker25]

@Maxintosh Well Put

[Maxintosh]

Thanks And you are 110% correct about pc's running OS X not being as good as on a Mac. The advantage that Apple has is that they can fine tune their computers/OS X to run flawlessly together. People might get 90% of the Mac 'experience' on a pc - but it's that extra 10% that makes all the difference

[slacker25]

Yes and if Windows would drop windows a bit .... like everything but the gui and take a lesson from this they might stand to be somehitng good too

 

and linux is nice on lots of things like it a lot for many things but i hate tweaking it soo much i just wanna turn my mac on and actually use it

 

 

 

 

greatest comic ever http://applegeeks.com/comics/viewcomic.php?issue=83

[jaez]

a computer can only be as good as it's operating system

 

Not true. It depends on the application. Single user running a Spreadsheet is entirely different from mult-user database transaction server application.

 

Good old DOS with extenders is excellent for running processor intensive math calculations and multi-tasking OSs still can't beat DOS there.

 

So, there are some things that even old DOS can beat MAC OS X at.

 

DOS is KING.

 

At least, in its own sphere of single-tasking os apps.

[slacker25]

@jaes... DOS bloze .. BASH is KING and one of the things that run under all UNIX mutlitasking OS

[Maxintosh]

It depends on the application.

Don't look now but I think they call that 'putting the cart before the horse'. Try running your application without an OS behind it :censored2:

[dani77zg]

@dani77zg

 

what the ruling will most likly set is just as maclancer pointed out is is a {censored} agreement just like any other one if you are not some retard and can read the judge will tell you either agree to it or hey DONT USE IT

 

the law does not dictact biz practice THE US gov does nto work this way or there would be no companies

 

everyone needs to get over their freakin false sence of entitlement to something you really dont own the right to

 

you install it on your PC ok .... but dont call it legal and dont whine cause someone tells you. you did something illegal

 

Well, I don't think I'm a retard and I can read. I don't think though, that everyone that has different opinion than me is a retard. Still, I don't see that decision is that obvious.

The law DOES dictate business practice, otherwise there would be anarchy. Nothing else can dictate business practice but the law. Even though business practice is the wrong term. The right term would be something like rules of the game. Congress (legislative authority) is the one that make the laws. Government an the president (executive authority) are in charge of enforcing that laws. Courts (judiciary authority) are in charge of interpreting the laws in case of dispute and they are also in charge of controlling enforcement of the laws that Congress passed. US government can only propose the law to the Congress.

If US government is to pass the laws and is in charge of their enforcement, that would be very dangerous and is not a democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers

The government also must obey the law just like any one individual.

I don't think companies like Labour law but they must obey it.

[GTR-33]

Apple is the only kid in dreamland. They are stiffling their own development. They refuse to see the forrest for the trees.

How do you figure? OS10 does plenty well the way it is now. Development for what exactly? OS10 has far more features than Windows. Are you speaking in terms of company growth? They are growing the way they want to do business.

 

I still don't understand how they could be so blind.

You are the only one that is blind here. You can't seem to grasp that a company would rather sell a quality product at a lower volume and higher margin than blow out trillions of copies of a {censored} one.

 

People love OSX, but they don't buy it, because they can't use it to run the applications they need to solve their real problems.

Like what? I haven't even touched a Windows computer in over ten years. There are a lot of niche products out there for Windows, but that's because whomever at company x made a deal with Dell on 10000 desktops and not Apple. So their {censored} little niche programs were written for Windows. There is nothing OS10 can't provide to the everyday user. I'm an everyday user and I don't need Windows for anything...

 

So, they walk into the Apple Store, and go GOO GOO GAA GAA, that stuff looks really cool, then they walk over to the PC shop and "buy" a Dell, IBM, or HP.

There are three reasons for this. 1) Afraid to try something different than Windows. 2) Simply can't afford a Mac 3) Cheap and they only see the price.

 

That means more apps for OSX, and thus more customers will buy Macintoshes becaues they can run their fav apps there.

Favorite apps? There is an application for anything that you actually need to do as an everyday user. Why do you need ten different applications to do the job of one? Like Roxio Toast. It's awesome, why do you need to burn with anything else? People don't need ten options or to use a port of their old one. People are just afraid to try something different. Someone asked me if they make Nero for Mac OS. I said no. They got all upset about it.. I said Toast is awesome, but yeah it's not Nero... Who cares? Toast can do anything Nero can and it's easier to use.

 

If Psystar wins, Windows developers will jump at the opportinuty to install Leopard and convert and develop apps for OSX, and Apple will win many more customers, so Apple wins.

No. You are really delusional. You really have no idea why specific applications are written for Windows over Mac OS. It has nothing to do with what computer you are running Mac OS on.

 

But, what about the small developer? The little shop, with just one guy, or two or three guys, making "Plug-in" apps for Adobe Photoshop or Acobe Illustrator etc...

We don't need them and neither does the PC market in general. I am seeing a recurring theme in all of your banter and it is cost of ownership. Seriously, how much more expensive is a Mac than a Dell of equal specification?

 

allegiances has never been lower that it is today.

How much do you really save on building a computer? Sure you can build a hack for a few hundred at about the performance of a mini. How much did you really save though? How much loader and larger is your hack than a mini? Does it have built in Wifi and bluetooth?

 

The sales of all computers are rising.

Wrong. If that were true Apple wouldn't be gaining market share...

 

Your Windows box can be as cheap as a K-Mart or as sophisticated and expensive as you want. The choices for PCs are endless.

That's because anyone can build a PC, and only in the PC world can you explore the wonders of Overclocking Excellence.

See here again you don't seem to understand what a small percentage of the market actually builds their own computer. You sound like a nerd complaining because you can't afford a Mac. Over clocking? Who cares? Does the average user give a hoot? No. Over clocking is just a nerdy pissing contest.

[slacker25]

Over Clocking is a dumb idea to begain with there can be way too much at risk

 

Friend of mine took some fools advice online about it can looked like fool when done was told to wire bigger capasitors onto an older mobo to achieve over clock of ram and what happened they was too much watts for the mobo and he fries the sucker

 

illl over clock when apple says its safe to do and stats offering it offically with macs

and that willl never happen cause they are not stupid

[jaez]

How do you figure? OS10 does plenty well the way it is now. Development for what exactly? OS10 has far more features than Windows. Are you speaking in terms of company growth? They are growing the way they want to do business.

 

Fine. Grow that way. We'll still use our hackint0shes and watch in amusement. OSX is nice to "play with."

 

You are the only one that is blind here. You can't seem to grasp that a company would rather sell a quality product at a lower volume and higher margin than blow out trillions of copies of a {censored} one.

 

I have nothing to lose here. If Apple sees things my way, I can see opportunities emerging for me as a developer. What is a quality product? If it doesn't do what I want, theres no quality.

 

Like what? I haven't even touched a Windows computer in over ten years. There are a lot of niche products out there for Windows,

 

Golly, I couldn't even begin to explain. If all you see computers useful for is writting letters, email, and listening to music, you are clueless, living in a dark box without windows.

 

Right now AMD doesn't even bother with Apple when it comes to supporting stream processing on graphics chips, you can only get libraries for WINDOWS and LINUX, which means all university science and engineering departments needing to buy research desktop computers for the emerging parallel processing applications will have to buy PCs. Apple probably doesn't even know what parallel processing means.

 

 

There is nothing OS10 can't provide to the everyday user. I'm an everyday user and I don't need Windows for anything...

 

What on earth is an everyday user? High school kids only listen to music, entertain themselves in chat groups, and send email. Is that you?

 

 

There are three reasons for this. 1) Afraid to try something different than Windows. 2) Simply can't afford a Mac 3) Cheap and they only see the price.

 

Those may be valid reasons for some people, sure. But, there's a whole world of other consumers out there.

 

 

Favorite apps? There is an application for anything that you actually need to do as an everyday user. Why do you need ten different applications to do the job of one? Like Roxio Toast. It's awesome, why do you need to burn with anything else?

 

No. People who produce nothing, but only consume, have very limited use for the computer. They download, they burn discs, they "collect things" around the web, they play games, watch movies, listen to music, and they chat.

 

That's one group of "everyday users."

 

They tend to only know of other people like themselves.

 

There's a whole world of other everyday users out there, that "produce things."

 

And they all produce "different kinds of things" requiring "various different applications" to help them in their work.

 

It is here that you find most "WINDOWS" users.

 

These other users don't fall into any nice neat little groups.

 

 

No. You are really delusional. You really have no idea why specific applications are written for Windows over Mac OS. It has nothing to do with what computer you are running Mac OS on.

We don't need them and neither does the PC market in general. I am seeing a recurring theme in all of your banter and it is cost of ownership. Seriously, how much more expensive is a Mac than a Dell of equal specification?

 

Who is talking about cost of ownership? We're talking about options. My PC is better than a Mac. It cost more. I could have bought a cheap MAC for $500 bucks. But, it can't do anything I want.

 

 

How much do you really save on building a computer?

 

You can save on building a computer, sure. You can also build a more expensive computer that does other things. You have that "option" with Windows and Linux.

 

See here again you don't seem to understand what a small percentage of the market actually builds their own computer. You sound like a nerd complaining because you can't afford a Mac. Over clocking? Who cares? Does the average user give a hoot? No. Over clocking is just a nerdy pissing contest.

 

Window and Linux are not for "average users", they are for exceptional users, those with lots of imagination, creative folks, who desire to use their computers to build things. There are also "a few" apple users in this group. And it is these Apple users that would like to see Apple catch up to Windows and Linux.

 

Overclocking is not just for nerds, its also for university engineering research departments and for financial companies trading securities needing the fastest calculations for derivative securities, and a good many things high school kids can't understand yet.

 

May Psystar win, so that we can enlighten the "Apple everyday user" what the computer can really do out there in the real world.

 

 

[slacker25]

@jaes ......"If it doesn't do what I want"

 

 

Who yuou think you are your one persont hey are APPLE!!!!!..... these companies out here are companies that make money not do what you WANT!!

[jaez]

@jaes ......"If it doesn't do what I want"

Who yuou think you are your one persont hey are APPLE!!!!!..... these companies out here are companies that make money not do what you WANT!!

 

They are not Apple. He is Steve Jobs.

 

Individuals make the world.

[Schmacintosh]

15 pages of analogies...how much longer is this cr@p gonna rumble on for? Roll on the court case - we'll know who wins and all this stuff will be irrelevant

[slacker25]

When all the idiots stop with the analogies and accepts that they are irrelivent in their need to argu their pointless

points of view if this was the other way and yyoou all had a company with products simmilar to apples would you want anyone telling you what to do with it

 

When all the idiots stop with the analogies and accepts that they are irrelivent in their need to argu their pointless

points of view if this was the other way and yyoou all had a company with products simmilar to apples would you want anyone telling you what to do with it

[Maxintosh]

When all the idiots stop with the analogies and accepts that they are irrelivent in their need to argu their pointless

points of view if this was the other way and yyoou all had a company with products simmilar to apples would you want anyone telling you what to do with it

Exactly. Nothing said in this thread is going too change anything in the real world. The law is what it is.

[jaez]

15 pages of analogies...how much longer is this cr@p gonna rumble on for? Roll on the court case - we'll know who wins and all this stuff will be irrelevant

 

Well, somewhere it said Apple had 30 days to respond. So the clock is ticking.

 

Yet, even after the court case is settled, these ideas won't go away.

 

You know, regardless of who wins at court, there's always the "Appeals".

 

This could go on for years.

 

[GTR-33]

OSX is nice to "play with"

You seriously have to be joking or you really don't know anything about Mac OS. You do realize that probably 95% or so of the film industries special effects and 3D animations are created on a Mac? How about a good 70% of the music industry uses Macs? Professional photo editing? Mac... You have no clue what you're taking about. Go to Skywalker sound, Dreamworks or Industrial Light and Magic and see if there is anything but Macs in their office...

 

Research departments use Macs. Ever hear of stem cells? How about University of Wisconsin Madison? Well they all use Macs in their research department and they are the leading stem cell facility in the world.

 

The average PC user creates nothing, like yourself. Macs come with better software out the box for creating DVDs, Photos and Music out the box than any PC. iLife... It comes with every Mac. Everyday users are the internet browsers, the music players and the photo albums. PC does stand for PERSONAL COMPUTER doesn't it? You are required to create something with it? Give me a break...

 

You know AMD tried to sue Apple for only building their hardware with Intel chips right?

 

Overclocking is for geeks. It's fun to push the boundary. No businesses overclock their computers.

 

Yet NONE of this has anything to do with the legality of running OSX on non-Apple hardware does it?

 

You never answered the question... What can't a Mac do that YOU need it to do? Stop dancing around the question.