The Great Driver Hunt

[Jewdass]

It's exciting to see progress! I've posted a PM to effects volunteering to reduce my 20" imac to a pile of steaming bits for the cause. The first thing I'm going to do after this is working is to pick up a copy of The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion

[darkten]

Time for an "unpopular position/reality check" post...sorry guys.

 

Effects needs to publish what he knows...as well as Colin securing and publishing the source cod for xom.efi.

 

Seriously. There is a lot of talk about "openness" and "testing" and so forth...but honestly, and *especially in this case* we are talking about a methodology on top of a hack here...and it needs EYES on it.

 

The big problem with the XoM solution was its relative secrecy and *tiny* verification pool....for obviou$ reasons.

 

The *truth* is however, Out of the Box, it wasn't useful beyond its initial purpose of *booting and installing xp with basic usb support* until the scores of people effected got on the task of hunting up drivers.

 

So too, with this. Effects has stated that the machine is booting on MBP's...at minimum, *his*...with his ram, his partitioning, etc and using the radeon.

 

His laptop hasn't blown up, he's still using it and posting from it, etc.

 

Its *done*.

 

We are talking a display here; its working or it isn't...not a lot of wiggle room, ambiguity, etc.

 

You can see it, you can show that the video is DirectX ready...

 

Or it isn't.

 

What we need now is not a lot of "me too" requests for "testing" because leave us face it, its either working (on MPB's at least) or it isn't. You'd be no more "testing" it than we all are "testing" XoM at this stage; that is to say it is used *at risk*.

 

Its more a case of verity and repeatability at this stage.

 

And before I get 15 follow up "scene-reflex-fear-responses" ("SHUT UP SHUT UP or he'll take his ball and go home!!") spare me.

 

I'm not calling effects a liar or anything like that, heaven forbid. I'm simply stating that he needs to go ahead and document what he's doing so that we can make it as complete a solution as possible...no repeats of the "Oh hell, xom doessn't work on 20" iMacs!" after the "Windows Boots!" cry has already been issued.

 

We need a "Here's what we know works on the MBP; installing this requires a clean slate. Please *verify this as you go along* and iMac people note the differences" methodology, as opposed to a 6 person pool with folks with varied skill sets running in circles.

 

And while he states its for the love, not the money...I'm down with that. Now, be down with this: document your process for us, today, publicly, right here, before 9PM GMT -5:00. If it can be publicly scrutinized and verified by Midnite, *I* will personally pay you $500 USD of my own money...just like that.

 

You keep the glory or whatever. I just want this done right/better. Many people are still a bit...irked behind the fact that Colin handed over the dollars for a solution that we still don't have the source code for.

 

Let's do it the other way around; It is noted and acknowledge by me and everyone else here that the "Effects method" is in fact, effects' method...so no one can claim it if its shared publicly and acknowledge as such.

 

We give it a go, if its viable, we all laude you, and you get some of my cash. Don't worry, I've got extra

 

If its broken, we can fix it, *right now*...everyone's happy, done deal.

 

Be sure to put a LARGE AT-YOUR-OWN-RISK-YOU-COULD-LOSE-DATA-OR-YOUR-MORTAL-SOUL disclaimer right at the top...

 

And lets get on with it

 

-D

[neosublime]

I so agree with you Darkten. Let's face it, progress has ben much slower than it should have been.

[BitterSweet]

I was just thinking the same thing,

 

I've been away a couple of days, and considering that this is one of the hottest topics in the mac community at the moment I was quite shocked to see only 2 more pages on the 'Driver Hunt' topic.

 

I've a iMac 17" 1.83GHz 512Mb RAM and am willing to test stuff out. We need to nail down the X1600 issue before anything else I think.

[darkten]

I so agree with you Darkten. Let's face it, progress has ben much slower than it should have been.

 

I wouldn't say that....

 

What I am saying, is what I said a couple days back: if he's gotten the thing to use an x1600 driver, then that's progress. If his MBP hasn't died a horrible death, this doesn't particularly mean someone else's mightn't and the collective "we" aren't really going to find this out until, well, we can.

 

We need people to list there exact hardware, *amount of ram* (believe it or not, the first Linux solutions only worked with 512MB; they had no *clue* it wouldn't work with more until it was released!) how the drives are partitioned, etc.

 

70 "test cases" are infinately more valuable than 7; 700, even moreso.

 

-D

[umpimpmymac]

I wouldn't say that....

 

What I am saying, is what I said a couple days back: if he's gotten the thing to use an x1600 driver, then that's progress. If his MBP hasn't died a horrible death, this doesn't particularly mean someone else's mightn't and the collective "we" aren't really going to find this out until, well, we can.

 

We need people to list there exact hardware, *amount of ram* (believe it or not, the first Linux solutions only worked with 512MB; they had no *clue* it wouldn't work with more until it was released!) how the drives are partitioned, etc.

 

70 "test cases" are infinately more valuable than 7; 700, even moreso.

 

-D

yeah, not sure why effects is not coming forward to get assistance from everyone if it has been booting for over 2-3 days now. Maybe it's booting but not actually functioning as an x1600. Whatever, from now on, people should post with the intent to share rather than promise this or that. This is not a strip-tease show, you either post and share or don't bother posting.

[Neddy]

I have not posted here yet. As a matter of fact, i guess i am a troll. BUT, i do think from all the reading I have done, that it has been strange that no one has stood up and said what you have said above. Leting people test something/add to something/correct problems is what this is about. Correct me if I am out of line, but Effects has not posted ANY real info on how his(her?) solution works. There have been some hints, but its mostly been something more like...."I will bestow a solution to you when it is ready and I choose to do so." Nothing like the solution from multiple sources i would have thought it would be. I hate to say this, as I am sure that I am going to be one of many that use the fruits of someone elses labor, but I actually dont believe Effects is as far along has he(she?) has lead us to believe. If that is the case, maybe a partial solution to an advanced problem would be the wisest thing to give to the community right now.

 

PS: like i said, i know i sound out of line, BUT I am just saying how i feel.

[agone]

...

 

I can't believe some people complain like that, you don't pay for their services so you have no right to behave as spoiled children.

 

I believe effects when he says he's worked on the ati issue, he even posted an ETA and all this will be *free* to us, simple readers of this board. Now, imagine he gets stuck and doesn't come up with a working fix, that's not a reason to throw him stones.

 

This is getting really selfish and impolite, not a proper state-of-mind for the whole project...

[darkten]

...

 

I can't believe some people complain like that, you don't pay for their services so you have no right to behave as spoiled children.

 

I believe effects when he says he's worked on the ati issue, he even posted an ETA and all this will be *free* to us, simple readers of this board. Now, imagine he gets stuck and doesn't come up with a working fix, that's not a reason to throw him stones.

 

This is getting really selfish and impolite, not a proper state-of-mind for the whole project...

 

And THAT'S the *exact* "scene" reply I was talking about.

 

I don't believe there was a single 'childish' word in my well though out post. Not one. In fact, I put my own cash on the line, not to make a difference, but to make a point.

 

And, pretty much what I expected, I'd get a response like yours...motivated moreso by "fear" I suspect than reason

 

Its not about "hope" or "proof"...its about trying to achieve exact what effects mentioned was his goal: a solid, workable solution.

 

Look, he's already outlined the biggest issue, that being that its a "one-shot'' solution. Even this might be solvable by someone else.

 

We can't get there. Let's get there.

 

-D

[agone]

I wasn't referring to your very post, I understood your point and it was well stated, I was in fact quite angry at the replies just after yours.

[Neddy]

I believe that post was directed at me. Which, I understand. I know I am not paying for the service, of course anyone doing this is doing it to contribute to the cause/just for fun/because they want to. That is not the point I was making.

 

The point I was making is there alot of smart people here (FAR smarter then me, this this field) and I do believe that they could be of assistance to Effects/anyones code writing if they would allow it. So i am dissapointed in almost the entire board for lacking discussion in this area. Good for him if he gets it done on his own, bad for EVERYONE if he cant, but will not ask for help.

 

These are MY thoughts, no one elses. If you want to comment about them, please quote me so as not to confuse anyone.

[umpimpmymac]

I wasn't referring to your very post, I understood your point and it was well stated, I was in fact quite angry at the replies just after yours.

let's cut the social banter and get some real useful technical info in this forum. this is why we are all here, not for sniffing each other out, go walk your dog in the park if that's what you want to do. i would like to have an actual exchange of technical info here instead. to do that you need a modicum of material to start a synergistic exchange. we are all frustrated that we have nothing tangible to get excited about, is that so bad, can we not grieve about the dearth of real useful technical info? i think we are allowed to so keep your anger inside you please...

[effects]

Time for my reply! I have stated many things in my post. I have been posting for a while, even before this solution I am working hard to complete. Testing is underway, but here is my two cents. I am not arrogant enough to think I am an expert and in no need of assistance. As a matter of fact, the solution I am working on is a collaboration with another individual. I am not out for glory or money, so you can stick your $500 dollars. I am out for a 100% working solution. I have not tried to hide anything from anyone. I have been posting info on this for and wiki. This forum however has become very arrogant. Maybe you can help, but poor attitudes get me nowhere. I am not about to publish a solution that I cannot say it completely effective. I have others helping me and that is the way it will stay. I will continue to devulge info as I have it, but that is all. Take it or leave it. I don't care if you don't believe me. I don't care if you get angry. I understand many people are eager to get a solution and many people work hard. I appreciate some people's time and patience. I also appreciate the number of people who are volunteering to help me test the solution, but I will not tolerate or bother listening to whining. Get over it. I have told you where the problem lies. I told everyone where to look in previous posts.

 

I apologize to all of you who have been patient, but some jerks make me wonder why I bother anyway. I want a solution as bad as everyone else. Criticizing Narf and Blanka is retarded. They did a great job and the source code will come out. I could complain, because the source code would help me, but I am not. I am gratful to them and wish them well. So, in conclusion, get over it. If you don't like the way I work, I have news. I don't care. The people that spend there time complaining are leechers. You leech off of everyone else and complain because the world doesn't bow to your whim.

 

Waaa!

 

Sincerely,

Effects

 

Everyone else that wasn't whining, I will keep you posted. Thanks!!

[darkten]

let's cut the social banter and get some real useful technical info in this forum.

 

Yeah let's.

 

To that end, I need someone to point me to a good windows tool similar to Pacifist on OSX; i need to pull all of the drivers we're using on the macbook pro out of the exe's and such into a folder structure I can use for one "meta-patch" as a "drop-in" to the xom patch/slipstream directory, as we're all gonna need to re-install anyway and might as well do in in "one swell foop" as they say

 

-D

[effects]

-D

 

You may want to look at admin studio

 

Effects

[darkten]

ROTFLMAO.

 

Why does this response NOT surprise me in the least.

 

Ok...start here:

 

*exactly* what set of drivers did ya' slipstream in?

 

As for "100% working solution"...here's a question:

 

Is it 100% working *for you*...and if so, why on *earth* would it NOT work on similar hardware, following similar steps?

 

While its nice to play the "arrogant" card, methinks you should re-read your reply; no one is asking for anything but basic info at this point.

 

A good start; Exactly which set of drivers did you use? There is a ton to pick from.

 

-D

[effects]

Alright darkten. I used the asus a7j drivers and slipstreamed those in. As for my 100% working solution, you all state it does or does not work. I have never stated it is 100% working. I only stated that I want a 100% working solution. I have been doing testing and have found glitches in several programs. One of them is halo pc the driver causes a bsod (blue screen of death), some games appear to be fine such as american mcGee's alice. Anyway, I have to determine the cause of the BSOD. Hope that answers both your questions.

 

Oh yes, I forgot. If it is 100% working for me, then it will 100% work for similar hardware.

 

Effects

[darkten]

Alright darkten. I used the asus a7j drivers and slipstreamed those in. As for my 100% working solution, you all state it does or does not work. I have never stated it is 100% working. I only stated that I want a 100% working solution. I have been doing testing and have found glitches in several programs. One of them is halo pc the driver causes a bsod (blue screen of death), some games appear to be fine such as american mcGee's alice. Anyway, I have to determine the cause of the BSOD. Hope that answers both your questions.

 

Oh yes, I forgot. If it is 100% working for me, then it will 100% work for similar hardware.

 

Effects

 

Thank You.

 

This is what in heck we all, I think, needed to know, and here's why:

 

It *properly sets the expectations* to a reasonable level.

 

Again, my purpose (honestly) was not to goad you, but to believe it or not, release some of the bloody tension.

 

This info accomplishes that.

 

My suggestion: Start a "compatibility wiki page"...and here's why:

 

Folks will be installing from god-knows-what. We'd need to know what a good baseline is (I work from a real live XP Pro SP2 CD)

 

Folks will have installed already god-knows-what: We need to again, establish a baseline to get the "breakpoint"

 

Folks will be able to add/append as needed: a "100% solution* is a bit anathema, since technically, we've got only an 80% BIOS to work with.

 

Now that (I think) the expectations are somewhat set, there is no need for tit-for-tat {censored}...nor was this my intention, obviously.

 

By "drawing out the drama" as it were, you kind of ran/run the risk of setting too high a bar in the minds of the readers...your own version of "pre-Stevenote speculation".

 

Better to "nip that in the bud" now.

 

Its you method, what you do with it is up to you; but I think the best way to go from here is a "Compatibility" Wiki.

 

-D

[effects]

Its you method, what you do with it is up to you; but I think the best way to go from here is a "Compatibility" Wiki.

 

-D

 

Compatibility for what? I have finished testing. I know it partially works on my 2 ghz mbp with 1gig ram (also tested with 2 gig ram) 100 gb hd. However, I have not tested for imac or anything else. I have other people who have said they would test that. The driver that I am using may be causing my BSOD in Halo, but I won't know until I test a few other things. I think you are jumping the gun a little. One step at a time. There is a wiki compatibility chart up for drivers right now. My solution isn't completely ready and I wouldn't dare post it till it's complete. I can put a disclaimer on it, but I would feel horrible if someone's machine was messed up because I hadn't taken my time to properly test my solution. Hopefully everyone can understand that.

 

Effects

[darkten]

Compatibility for what?

 

Applications, not Hardware. Understand?

 

Again, I'm pretty sure everyone is sympathetic to you not wanting to hose machines, as it were, but it sort of comes with the territory; try re-installing OSX on a machine set up like this on a MBP. Not gonna happen w/o a re-partioning (whoops!) because XoM mungs the partition table so the MBP installer doesn't think the GPT scheme is still in place tho it is.

 

Certainly not Narf and Blanka's fault; they built the solution on an iMac.

 

Same sort of thing.

 

Really, no need to be so hostile; simply needed info to properly set expectations, ease tensions and offer suggestions for a plan of action that utilizes the collective power of all these people...that's all

 

-D

[moksha]

But quite a few people have offered to test (inculding me), and we're aware that it might mess up our machines. So while posting it at this time might not be prudent, letting those who wish to test it might speed up work for you, at least knowing if it works on the iMacs and other MacBooks.

[NJax]

Thats good enough explaination for me. I think that the reasoning behind why you've stayed relatively silent about the details probably could have been communicated earlier. Please understand, Effects that people are REALLY anxious about getting a solution, even if it's not 100%, to at least play with something. Please understand that a lot of people are willing to brick their machines to test your solution.

That said, I can see how you woulnd't feel right about releasing any information that may likely brick someone's machine.

I think we should really all try to communicate as much as possible here, as I dont think there's any reason for anybody to get upset at anybody. I think we should have been asking Effects why he didn't release (which he just explained), instead of starting a flame, intentionally or not.

Effects, please don't generalize your feelings towards some members here, and please be gracious in understanding we are VERY excited and anxious to hear the details of your solution!

 

[effects]

But quite a few people have offered to test (inculding me), and we're aware that it might mess up our machines. So while posting it at this time might not be prudent, letting those who wish to test it might speed up work for you, at least knowing if it works on the iMacs and other MacBooks.

 

At this time, I do have others testing on imacs even though I myself am doing no testing on them at all. The only information I have recieved about the imacs at this time is that the fans run at extremely high speeds when my patch is installed. (In case you are wondering, these are my close friends testing this and after talking with them one on one, I feel comfortable that they understand what they could be doing to there machines and have no doubt that they can replace there machines easily as cash is not a problem for them). The fans are very concerning to me and at this time, I am not ready to release the solution. It is not working.

 

Effects

[NJax]

I agree, having more testers than less is gonna help getting this thing working faster and better, but honestly the logistics for Effects to get back to everyone who's expressed interest, and monitor everybody's bugs and testing is sort of impractical without an official system

[effects]

At this time, I will conclude my solution as not working! This is becoming more of a pain than anything else. As stated earlier it either works or doesn't so I am going to side with doesn't. By me stating this, progress can continue as it was. Earlier in another post it was stated to post proof if you had it or don't post at all, so I side with the later. My work is not ready for the public. I appreciate the support I had, but will not post anything else on either forum until it is complete by my standards.

 

Thanks and Goodnight

Effects