South Ossetia

[u1m2]

I admit to rushing to conclusions on the teacher aspect of education, mostly because I was reflecting on the situation where I live, Turkey. Here, a good teacher can earn a lot of money in private establishments which are not schools but are specifically focused on preparing kids to specific exams issued by the central government. For example there is a single exam which determines the university the student will attend: OSS (student selection examination). Since the public schools are horrible and the moronic teachers can't teach even if their lives depended on it, families tend to pay huge sums of money for these establishments to prepare their children for such exams. Any decent teacher with half a brain can earn in a single month, a few months worth of public school salary and this number easily doubles with a handful private tutored students.

The bottom line is, private schools are for people who have more money and their students are statistically more successful in college acceptance therefore people who do not have the money to go to a private school have less of a chance to go to college by comparison. This is not my biased opinion, it's just a few random facts followed by one other. The same is true here in Turkey where average income is much lower compared to USA but the private school fees are almost just as high. IMHO, money has no place in education and all students should have equal opportunity to progress in their academic lives irrespective of their parents income levels.

[Descalzo]

I have been thinking a bit about this. Let me see if I can say it correctly.

 

Russia is all over South Ossetia and Georgia. If, indeed, Georgia started this, they were stupid. Russia is running that place now. If it was all Georgia's fault, they have paid more than enough.

 

We need to watch what the old Soviet Republics and old Iron Curtain countries like the Ukraine are doing about this. They still remember what it used to be like to be ruled by the Russians. Who are they supporting?

[Numberzz]

Private high schools in the United States typically have WORSE teachers then public schools. This is because private schools do not have the resources to pay teachers the same amount of money as public school teachers and the government gives teachers a very good pension, which private schools cannot match.

Uh, no. The private school I attend have some of the best teachers in the United States. And they have the money to prove it. For every single year I go to school it costs more than $30,000 and The MAXIMUM number of students in any classroom at one time can be no more than 17. In public schools, teachers cannot make more than $88,000 a year, while in my school, a teacher that just started makes $99,000, with no cap of how much you can make.

[aduffbrew]

I have been thinking a bit about this. Let me see if I can say it correctly.

 

Russia is all over South Ossetia and Georgia. If, indeed, Georgia started this, they were stupid. Russia is running that place now. If it was all Georgia's fault, they have paid more than enough.

 

We need to watch what the old Soviet Republics and old Iron Curtain countries like the Ukraine are doing about this. They still remember what it used to be like to be ruled by the Russians. Who are they supporting?

Things to keep in mind...

 

South Ossetia was never part of an independent Georgia. Yes it was annexed by Russian in the early 19th century but even after the Bolshevik Revolution, Soviet Georgia quickly established it as an autonomous province.

 

The vast majority of South Ossetians hold Russian passports and ally themselves with Moscow. They are ethnically distinct from Georgians... they are actually Sarmatian of Ancient Persia fame. They fought a bloody civil war with Georgia after the fall of the Soviet Empire.

 

Georgia is begging for NATO admittance. The U.S. is pushing for that too. Russia is quite alarmed. This would be like a revived Warsaw Pact claiming Mexico or Canada as a member. Not something many in the U.S. would appreciate either.

 

Georgian Democracy isn't a whole lot better than their Russian counterparts. It certainly isn't anything like what Americans see as democracy. Civil liberties, freedom of the press, even freedom of speech is monitored and curtailed where the state deems fit.

 

Much of South Ossetia has held defacto independence from Georgia since 1992. And while the casualties were highly exaggerated, Georgian troops, in essence, invaded independent South Ossetia claiming to be regaining control of the province... killing several Russian Peacekeepers in the process. Those peacekeepers were there on the authority of the OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe).

 

Some questions that need answering:

 

Did Georgian President Saakashvili really think he could invade an area under the protection of Russia, kill several Russian peacekeepers and Russian citizens and expect Russia to do nothing? Or was he really expecting a Russian counter-attack and wanting to use that to pressure for a more speedy admittance into NATO?

 

Did the U.S. really not know what was going to happen? In the lead up to possible NATO admittance, the U.S. has been funneling billions in Georgia military aid which also included advisors and consultants. Are they saying that Georgia managed to gear up and execute its largest military campaign since their civil war without any of those precious advisors getting wise? Could the U.S. also be using this to speed Georgian admittance into NATO? Is Ukraine next?

 

Was Russia just waiting for an excuse to push into Georgia? We've pretty much ignored any Russian input from Yugoslavia to Iran. They're pretty pissed about the whole NATO expansion considering they were given verbal assurances that after the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, NATO would also be dissolved. They even tried to get in on that B.S. of a missile shield by offering strategically superior locations inside Russian territory for possible missile sites but were rebuffed. Could Georgia just be a wake-up call for the west not to ignore their concerns any longer? Russia is feeling very emboldened. What else does she have up her sleeve?

 

I don't know. The Russian Empire and later the Soviets cobbled together places and people into a unified whole. They kept it together through tyranny. Now, after the fall, we expect all these peoples to just be satisfied to politically stay put? These situations are very different than our civil war here. While both involve the ideal of self-determinism, where do you draw the line of anarchy? The American South shared a common history and language. We entered freely into a democratic union together. We saw that it was in our best interest then... and when that union was threatened, we fought. The Ossetians have not had that privilege to freely enter into democratic union. They haven't ever wanted it. Should the Western powers force them now?

 

I know my country has had moments of tyranny both modern and more ancient. Look what we did with the native peoples living in our lands! Wrong is wrong. Maybe those who have been guilty of it in the past should be a bit more sensitive to recognizing it in the present.

 

After the civil war that took as many as 10,000 lives, President Shevardnadze said the Ossetian issue would need to be resolved if a lasting peace was ever to come to Georgia. Well, I kind of agree with today's Ossetian sentiment. Georgia has shown its hand. After so much and now this? No. It's done in my mind. And U.S. foreign policy is terribly misguided. We are pushing Russian into a corner and for what? A missile defense system that really doesn't work? An expanded NATO that will do what exactly? I thought the goal of geopolitics was to make the world a safer place?! Looks to me like were trying to construct some elite club of nations that do what we say and punish those who don't.

[m16]

Uh, no. The private school I attend have some of the best teachers in the United States. And they have the money to prove it. For every single year I go to school it costs more than $30,000 and The MAXIMUM number of students in any classroom at one time can be no more than 17. In public schools, teachers cannot make more than $88,000 a year, while in my school, a teacher that just started makes $99,000, with no cap of how much you can make.

Well you might think they are the best teachers but there is really no way to prove this. 30,000 dollars for a high school education is very expensive even by private school standards. I don't think there are many private schools of this "caliber" around. I said typicially, not always. Your 120,000 dollar education isn't helping that much.

 

Also, teachers (government employees) have very good pensions so when you sign up to be a public school teacher that is definitely part of the financial aspect.

[MrMookMook]

Well you might think they are the best teachers but there is really no way to prove this. 30,000 dollars for a high school education is very expensive even by private school standards. I don't think there are many private schools of this "caliber" around. I said typicially, not always. Your 120,000 dollar education isn't helping that much.

 

Also, teachers (government employees) have very good pensions so when you sign up to be a public school teacher that is definitely part of the financial aspect.

 

Also, how do you measure a 'good teacher'? One of the more interesting things about teachers is most of time the good ones, are not in it for the money, they are there to help and be with children.

[aduffbrew]

What did you learn in school today, Ralphie? Did you learn to think or believe?

[m16]

Looks like Russia is formally recognizing South Ossetia and Abkhazi...

 

Looks like their humanitarian intervention card is completely blown...

 

Stupid war mongers...

[Guest cavallo]

To everybody, remember Stalin was Georgian.

Ataturk. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and Mussolini everyone the same.

Putin and Medvedev are not worst surely.

[m16]

Doesn't make them good either. Too bad Bush had to ruin decades of US credibility in 3 1/2 years....

[Guest cavallo]

South Ossetia and Abkhazia peoples are on their own countries.

Kossovo people is albanian and was gently hosted as refegees, do you know?

So also if they will have indipendency there will be always a very very big difference.

Why if Kossovo peogle asks support by the rest of the world is right and if South Ossetian and Abkhazian ask support it is not?

Where is justice?

[iTiger]

Tskinval wounds, documentary (eng. subtitles)

[aduffbrew]

*shakes head*

 

I'm not happy with how Russia, Georgia or the west have behaved in the lead up to and during this crisis. We've all behaved like thugs. We all talk the talk of humanitarians but what we do behind the scenes is pretty damn scandalous and we hope no one finds out about most of it. In the world of business, they'd call it a crime syndicate but in politics, it is business as usual.

 

When it comes to self-determinism, the old Soviet block is a political nightmare. This {censored} about South Ossetia being within the internationally recognized borders of Georgia is completely immaterial. Yes, the Russians are jerks, Yes, they TOTALLY aggravated the situation as payback after Kosovo... they even told us this was going to happen back in 1999! Yes, all their motivations were disingenuous and self-serving. But that doesn't change the fact that these people themselves have been fighting for the right of self-determination since 1801 when they were first annexed into the Russian Empire by force. The international community has got to come up with a more agreeable way to deal with these issues. The independent Georgia should have dealt with this democratically after their civil war in the early 1990s but they didn't. This shouldn't have happened. They just wanted to keep any and all territory granted them whether they were entitled to it or not. And historically, they were clearly NOT.

 

Russia doesn't really care about these people. Just like my country doesn't really care about Georgians. It's all about empire building. The Soviet Union agreed in 1990 to the unification of Germany only after they were given assurances that NATO would not expand. When the soviet bloc disintegrated and the Warsaw Pact dissolved, Russia was given assurances that NATO would soon follow. The West has only expanded NATO against the protests of a then weakened Russia. Putin and his autocratic scale back of democracy are the answer to nearly two decades of broken promises and unrealized expectations. The current Russia is strong. They have Europe by the balls... 50% of Europe's natural gas comes from Russia and 25% of its oil. All they see is the continued dismissal of their concerns by the west and they're fighting mad. That's why Putin still has like a 97% approval rating even after all he's done to clamp down on civil liberties. They are in an ideological contest of wills and they plan to win.

 

US foreign policy has not kept pace with our changing geopolitical landscape. We were given a window of opportunity following the end of the cold war to step back and build relationships based on respect and mutual interests. Instead, we have pushed ahead with expanding our military alliances and political sphere of influence often at the expense of our new "friends." And now we scratch our heads and wonder why so many don't trust our motivations.

[m16]

aduffbrew you can't just have lots of small countries with a population of under 100k... there are only a few of these on the main continents and they are niche countries like Liechtenstein. Lots of minoritie ethnic groups co exist in larger countries... Like Belgium. A country like south ossetia isn't sustainable... there is too much pressure in the region to be independent. I predict in the next decade Russia or Georgia will re annex them.

[TrueEvil]

CNN feeded a lot of people with sh*t at first days of conflict... I was so mad of seing screenshot of CNN program with text "Russia invades Georgia". Damn.. So stupid lies... Georgia just do what US gov. says. All journalists have never been in Tskhinvali to see what this f*ckin Georgian troops done... Ossetians had to hide in basements during attack, but troops were throwing grenades there... So much pictures of Tskhinvali on Russian TV, but none of them in worldwide news on other channels. Dead women(pregnant too), kids, old men. It was surely genocide against Osetia. If Saakashvilli needed to bring Ossetia back he needed to do it diplomatically, not with killing.When recognizing of dead bodies started there was several black men(surely US instructors), Ukrainian men and women... Seems like conspiracy between US and orange countries. In Georgia TV brainwashing  people now, saying that Russian troops robbering houses for...what do you think? WCs!!! Yeah! We have difficulties with getting WCs in our country!  Damn stupid Georgian goverment... Tbilisi was never been bombed and so on.. All it was is just stupid lies..

[MrMookMook]

Georgia just do what US gov. says.

 

And you think South Ossetia won't just be a puppet of Russia?

[m16]

CNN feeded a lot of people with sh*t at first days of conflict... I was so mad of seing screenshot of CNN program with text "Russia invades Georgia". Damn.. So stupid lies... Georgia just do what US gov. says. All journalists have never been in Tskhinvali to see what this f*ckin Georgian troops done... Ossetians had to hide in basements during attack, but troops were throwing grenades there... So much pictures of Tskhinvali on Russian TV, but none of them in worldwide news on other channels. Dead women(pregnant too), kids, old men. It was surely genocide against Osetia. If Saakashvilli needed to bring Ossetia back he needed to do it diplomatically, not with killing.When recognizing of dead bodies started there was several black men(surely US instructors), Ukrainian men and women... Seems like conspiracy between US and orange countries. In Georgia TV brainwashing people now, saying that Russian troops robbering houses for...what do you think? WCs!!! Yeah! We have difficulties with getting WCs in our country! Damn stupid Georgian goverment... Tbilisi was never been bombed and so on.. All it was is just stupid lies..

I'm sure people had to hide when Russia was bombing in Georgia as well. Genocide means that the government is intentionally trying to damage a specific ethnicity/national group in this case. Do you really think Georgia was trying to get rid of all Ossetians in its newly aquired territory? On Russian TV have you seen more then 50 people dead? If so I think this would be a fascinating video on youtube. You probably would get millions of views... Why don't you do it... Why don't you post some pictures of "US" instructors... Until then I will just have to assume you are lying.

 

CNN's headline is technically correct. Russian troops are in georgia not just South Ossetia... This is an outrage because Russia is obviously superior to Georgias army and Georgia poses no threat to Russias security. Russia is trying to cripple Georgia because its pro west...

 

What I think is fascinating with you Russian supporters is you just dismiss the whole west/western media as a bunch of liars... Russia is really the only country making these crazy claims... Russia is also making it difficult for reporters to see the "genocide".

 

Calling this a genocide is an insult. Since the first atom splitting there have only been 2 genocides, by the Nazis, and by Hutu extremists in Rwanda. These people in Ossetia didn't suffer much at all compared to what happened in the real genocides.

 

Possibly there was attempted or inadvertent ethnic cleansing... but more likely is that these were just civillian casualties in a small war.

 

Conspiracy? What do you mean by conspiracy? That the US is trying to get Ossetians out of Georgia? Ossetia is not an independent country in anyone's eyes but Russias and themeselves... Up until a few weeks ago only itself regarded itself as independant... Its not much of a conspiracy when a country tries to take back a rebel region... Especially when every other country regards it as part of Georgia...

[aduffbrew]

aduffbrew you can't just have lots of small countries with a population of under 100k... there are only a few of these on the main continents and they are niche countries like Liechtenstein. Lots of minoritie ethnic groups co exist in larger countries... Like Belgium. A country like south ossetia isn't sustainable... there is too much pressure in the region to be independent. I predict in the next decade Russia or Georgia will re annex them.

Actually, I 100% agree. While I might sound like it, I am not a nationalist.... but I am for democratic unions. So much more could have been done on all sides to prevent this tragedy from occurring. In my mind, there is no reason why any group can't learn to live peacefully with another. This is so regrettable on all sides.

 

And if matters weren't bad enough, you have Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and Georgia proper caught in the middle of a pissing contest between Russia and the US. If either side were so concerned, why did they let this situation simmer for so long? Russia's participation is pretty obvious... and disturbing. But I can't help but question the extent of my own government's involvement. I also can't help but think the truth of what really happened falls squarely between the two main views. Really, no one is blameless here... and they are all spinning tales to back their own version of events.

 

I am not a supporter of Russia but neither am I a supporter of South Ossetia being Georgian just because some long dead dictator made it so and the status quo is politically expedient. Every other country can say what it wants, Georgia can say what it wants, history and the will of the people say something completely different. Again, they have never ever voluntarily entered into union with Georgia. I say let them choose their own future... even if we might not like it. That's what democracy is about, isn't it? Too bad I think they are running into the arms of a bunch of autocratic reactionaries!